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#23361 - 07/27/10 10:19 PM
Mandatory circumcisons
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old hand
Registered: 07/15/10
Posts: 413
Loc: United States
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A number of references are now reporting that CDC is about to make a big push for circumcisions, in particular for newborns but certainly not likely to stop there, as an aspect of the new health care bill. Indications are that, as the new health care plans are rolled out, and the requirements directed by government agencies are enforced, the directives of the CDC will be that circumcision of newborns (perhaps adults as well) will be public policy, and mandatory. I am NOT happy about this. http://www.healthnews.com/medical-update...-deep-3631.htmlThere's a lot more out there on this, especially since it is now a government mandated health care system, and not doing what the government directs is to also accept facing IRS penalties until such time as you do comply. http://current.com/1vhv64chttp://hotair.com/archives/2009/08/26/coming-up-circumcision-campaigns/Here's a link, a little scarier, because it's a letter establishing a CDC Circumcision Task Force policy revision, complete with an appointed chairman, address, and phone number (Jan 2010). Why has the government established a circumcision task force, and why are they announcing a policy revision? http://www.circumcisionandhiv.com/2010/0...o-be-heard.htmlAnd for currency of subject, this is a June 16, 2010 publication: Public Health Reports, Supplement 1 to Volume 125 (Jan/Feb 2010) entitled Male Circumcision in the United States for the Prevention of HIV Infection and Other Adverse Health Outcomes: Report from a CDC Consultation. http://www.circumcisionandhiv.com/2010/0...ates-fails.htmlThe entire 11 page report can be read here: http://www.davidwilton.com/files/cdc-consultation-report-mc_hiv.pdfOBTW, one of the authors (Patrick Sullivan) is a frikkin' VETERINARIAN! Andd suffice it to say, the requirement by the government to circumcise mine, or any other males bits is a step to far. For me, it' every bit as bad as the days when they took people to the asylum for electric shock therapy and lobotomies, "for the good of public health". I personally am neither pro-circ, nor anti-circ, but I am decidedly and heavily in the "it's my dick, and I'll make my own decision" mindset. Let any man cut it or don't, but I don't want some Dr Mengele cutting it because he thinks he knows what's best for me, or anyone else. &^$#(*&
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#23363 - 07/28/10 01:41 AM
Re: Mandatory circumcisons
[Re: skinback]
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veteran
Registered: 09/25/09
Posts: 948
Loc: Tucson, AZ
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I don't believe this for a second. I swear, there have been more ridiculous rumors about the health care system than alligators in the subway.
Mandatory sterilization, mandatory euthanasia, mandatory abortions, mandatory this, mandatory that.
It's all baloney.
_________________________
the first time ever I lay with you I thought my joy would fill the world ...
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#23366 - 07/28/10 02:56 AM
Re: Mandatory circumcisons
[Re: JDANG]
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enthusiast
Registered: 03/10/08
Posts: 349
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There still seems to be quite a bit of disupte over the actual preventative benefits conferred by circumcision. This study http://www.scienceagogo.com/news/20100626000602data_trunc_sys.shtmlfound it would have little real effect in the US. "Previous studies carried out in Africa indicated circumcision to be effective in limiting the spread of HIV, but new research suggests circumcision would have a very small effect on reducing HIV incidence in the United States..."
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#23369 - 07/28/10 07:25 AM
Re: Mandatory circumcisons
[Re: CaroleTucson]
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old hand
Registered: 07/15/10
Posts: 413
Loc: United States
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I don't believe this for a second. I swear, there have been more ridiculous rumors about the health care system than alligators in the subway.
Mandatory sterilization, mandatory euthanasia, mandatory abortions, mandatory this, mandatory that.
It's all baloney. As costs to the taxpayer are now the overriding concern of healthcare, there are a lot of things previously not believed possible that are already taking place. Requirements of citizens to appear at official Government weigh-ins has been officially and legally the practice of Japan (popularly call "Metabo"), with associated legal measurement requirements, and associated fines. Japan’s Ministry of Health believes its plan will help control health care costs for its aging population, most of whom receive health care from either public or employment-related services. By law, men’s waists can’t be larger than 33.5 inches, and women’s midsections can’t exceed 35.4 inches.
“They’d never get away with that” in the United States, said Dr. Keith Ayoob of Albert Einstein College of Medicine in New York. “I’m sure the intent is to get a healthier society, but I’m not sure this is the best way to go.” http://www.findingdulcinea.com/news/international/May-June-08/Japan-Institutes--Fat-Fines-.htmlAssociation of HC costs to obesity is currently a hot topic. Ways to cut costs now include laws to remove "junk food" from schools, increased vigilance by airlines of overweight passengers and the requirement to buy additional tickets, etc. The Japanese model for government regulated weight control is already being actively discussed. As more and more issues of taxpayer cost are forwarded, and the associations are made to individual HC, costs will be lowered by generating new laws, such as mandatory circumcision, and that's already under discussion in such agencies as CDC. http://www.foodconsumer.org/newsite/Non-...ith_weight.html
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#23371 - 07/28/10 11:25 AM
Re: Mandatory circumcisons
[Re: skinback]
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member
Registered: 02/27/09
Posts: 145
Loc: United Kingdom
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I simply cannot believe that the American health system is considering making circumcision mandatory.
Besides the obvious, it is a basic human rights issue and should this frankly ridiculous proposition go ahead then America would not be able to lecture anybody about human rights.
It is fundamentally the right of the individual to choose what he/she has done to his/her body and I think (or at least I hope), in time, the American public would give this lunatic policy of mandatory circumcision the finger and tell this CDC (whatever it is) to go to hell!!
_________________________
Drop beats not bombs!
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#23380 - 07/28/10 03:05 PM
Re: Mandatory circumcisons
[Re: skinback]
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old hand
Registered: 04/03/10
Posts: 443
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Skinback, relax. Weighing passengers in Japan does not lead to mandatory circumcision in the United States. There is zero chance of that happening.
It's all right wing hysterical BS.
Your first link has had the article removed. Your second and third links have articles that are a year old and only contemplated something supposedly being considered two years earlier by CDC, which did not come to pass. Your fourth and fifth links are also dead.
Your last link is the actual article referred to by the other two, about a two-day consultation that happened over three years ago, where CDC looked at the potential role of circumcision in preventing the spread of HIV; the article nowhere mentions remotely the possibility of proposing mandatory circumcision: "Potential activities under consideration, based on discussion at the April 2007 consultation, include referral of uncircumcised men who engage in unprotected penile-vaginal sex and have behavioral risk for HIV acquisition (e.g., multiple partners and prior STDs) to comprehensive HIV-prevention services, as well as education about and access to voluntary MC, HIV testing, risk-reduction counseling, and STD diagnosis and treatment."
Your logic is thin, weak, and wrong.
_________________________
A lusty, turned-on woman in full roar is the ultimate aphrodisiac.
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#23381 - 07/28/10 03:53 PM
Re: Mandatory circumcisons
[Re: OlderMan]
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old hand
Registered: 07/15/10
Posts: 413
Loc: United States
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Skinback, relax. Weighing passengers in Japan does not lead to mandatory circumcision in the United States. There is zero chance of that happening.
It's all right wing hysterical BS.
Your first link has had the article removed. Your second and third links have articles that are a year old and only contemplated something supposedly being considered two years earlier by CDC, which did not come to pass. Your fourth and fifth links are also dead.
Your last link is the actual article referred to by the other two, about a two-day consultation that happened over three years ago, where CDC looked at the potential role of circumcision in preventing the spread of HIV; the article nowhere mentions remotely the possibility of proposing mandatory circumcision: "Potential activities under consideration, based on discussion at the April 2007 consultation, include referral of uncircumcised men who engage in unprotected penile-vaginal sex and have behavioral risk for HIV acquisition (e.g., multiple partners and prior STDs) to comprehensive HIV-prevention services, as well as education about and access to voluntary MC, HIV testing, risk-reduction counseling, and STD diagnosis and treatment."
Your logic is thin, weak, and wrong. Not sure why the links to the articles aren't working for you. Fact of the matter is that there are those who are working overtime to come up with ways to make nationalized healthcare universal in the US, and the dictates that leaders determine for us are what we will be required to do, end of conversation, end of choice. I don't care who's calling for it,right wing left wing, it's my center wing they've got a scalpel at the ready for, and I'm not happy. The same government that sent people into institution for mandatory lobotomies and electro-shock therapy is no different now than then. Frankly, I'm most surprised that the people with most interest in issues about the penis are so ready to just roll over and let them advance their plans and discuss such an issue with practically no concern. Siince links seem to be a problem right now, I'll post a complete article: Required Circumcision for All Baby Boys Born in the United States? By Beth Shaw
Public health officials are considering promoting required circumcision for all baby boys born in the United States. Officials hope that taking this action will help slow down the spread of H.I.V. and AIDS. The proposal that circumcision will be required in the United States has already generated controversy.
There is scientific evidence that circumcision can lead to a reduction in the risk of males contracting HIV, the virus that causes AIDS. AIDS has been at epidemic levels in Africa and studies show that African men who have been circumcised reduce their risk of getting AIDS by half. The clinical trials performed in Kenya, South Africa and Uganda focused on heterosexual males who were at risk from getting HIV from infected female sexual partners. The studies showed they were 60% less likely to become infected with AIDS if they had been circumcised. Circumcision did not seem to have an impact on the likelihood of homosexual men contracting the disease.
As a result, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention in the United States is considering a proposal that all newborn baby boys in the United States should be circumcised. They are also considering offering the surgery to heterosexual adult males whose sexual behavior is such that they are at greater risk for the disease.
An official proposal hasn’t been made yet, but is expected to be made by the end of the year.
The problem with the studies being applied to males in the United States is that there is a huge discrepancy between available medical care in the United States and the countries studied in Africa. There is also a difference in the populations most at risk. While heterosexual males are at risk in Kenya, South Africa and Uganda, homosexual males are more at risk in the United States. The study shows that circumcision doesn’t impact the risk level for homosexual men.
The predominance of circumcised men in the United States has been cyclical over the years. At times it is just more common for baby boys to be circumcised than others. But, there is a higher percentage of males circumcised in the U.S. than many other countries, primarily because of the influence of Judaism. About 79% of adult men in the U.S have been circumcised. Even so, the numbers have dropped off since a high of 80% of newborn boys being circumcised right after World War II. White males are more likely to be circumcised than Black or Hispanic males.
The controversy is over whether or not it is necessary to expose newborn boys to unnecessary surgeries. It is apparent that circumcision would help reduce the out of control AIDS epidemic in Africa, but would it make a difference in the United States? Its reported that the largest ‘at risk’ population in the United States wouldn’t benefit from circumcision, so I’m not quite sure what the point is of requiring it.
It seems that providing education as to the risks and benefits would be helpful, and allowing parents to make informed decisions about whether or not to have their child circumcised. Having it required will only create controversy and anger on the part of many parents who already feel the government is too intrusive in our lives. Circumcision is a delicate topic for some people. Some people have strong feelings for and against it. Some of it is religious and some is health oriented. The point is, its a pretty personal decision and most people don’t want the centralized government making the decision for them.
The money spent on requiring this procedure could be spent on education about it with plenty left over to put into more productive preventative medicines. There would probably be some left over to help offer circumcisions in African nations if they wanted the help. Either way, NOT having required circumcision for all baby boys born in the United States would save money and a lot of irritation on the part of the people. Let parents decide.
What are your thoughts?
Photo: Nils Fretwurst
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#23384 - 07/28/10 04:55 PM
Re: Mandatory circumcisons
[Re: skinback]
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old hand
Registered: 04/03/10
Posts: 443
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That article is a year old. And it DOES NOT discuss making it mandatory. Why do you keep insisting that it does? This is from the CDC website right now, today: Some recent reports have speculated about the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention’s (CDC’s) upcoming public health recommendations on male circumcision for HIV prevention in the United States.
It is important to note that the recommendations are still in development and CDC has made no determination at this time about the final content. CDC is employing a deliberative, evidence-based process for developing the circumcision recommendations, which allows for both external and internal CDC experts to provide input. CDC will also publish draft recommendations for public comment before the content will be finalized.
With respect to infant circumcision, it is important to recognize that many options are still being considered in this process, including simply recommending that health-care providers educate parents about the potential benefits and risks to ensure that parents have the information they need to make an informed decision.
In developing its recommendations, CDC is also considering whether circumcision should be recommended for heterosexual adults at high risk for HIV infection in the United States, as well as whether there is sufficient scientific evidence to make any recommendations for men who have sex with men.
Whatever the content may include, CDC’s final circumcision recommendations will be completely voluntary. While CDC has not yet determined if male circumcision should be recommended for any population, ultimately the decision will rest with individuals and parents. CDC’s public health imperative is to provide the best possible information on the risks and benefits to help inform those decisions.
For further information, please link to CDC Fact Sheet on male circumcision. The italics are mine. I find that you are being alarmist about a threat that simply does not exist. I understand the American health care debate. For you to try to pretend that part of "big bad government health care" is CDC making circumcision mandatory is plain irresponsible.
_________________________
A lusty, turned-on woman in full roar is the ultimate aphrodisiac.
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#23386 - 07/28/10 05:08 PM
Re: Mandatory circumcisons
[Re: OlderMan]
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old hand
Registered: 07/15/10
Posts: 413
Loc: United States
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The italics are mine. I find that you are being alarmist about a threat that simply does not exist. I understand the American health care debate. For you to try to pretend that part of "big bad government health care" is CDC making circumcision mandatory is plain irresponsible.
If I'm going to be patted on the head, I'd rather it be on the one that I can still cover with a foreskin if I so choose!
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#23408 - 07/29/10 09:25 AM
Re: Mandatory circumcisons
[Re: JIP]
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old hand
Registered: 04/03/10
Posts: 443
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Agreed. Genital mutilation is just that, no matter what country you're in or what religion you practice.
_________________________
A lusty, turned-on woman in full roar is the ultimate aphrodisiac.
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#23410 - 07/29/10 11:11 AM
Re: Mandatory circumcisons
[Re: OlderMan]
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member
Registered: 02/27/09
Posts: 145
Loc: United Kingdom
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Agreed. Genital mutilation is just that, no matter what country you're in or what religion you practice. Amen Brother!!
_________________________
Drop beats not bombs!
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#23432 - 07/29/10 03:49 PM
Re: Mandatory circumcisons
[Re: Graham]
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old hand
Registered: 07/15/10
Posts: 413
Loc: United States
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yes, seems a bit alarmist. Of course it will never be mandatory .... I've provided plenty of evidence to the contrary. History is replete with people saying "it can't happen here", only to find that it had happened, and it was their patent denial that had allowed it. Certainly the German people of WWII refused to believe until they were dragged through the camps to see for themselves. Certainly there were many who said Richard Nixon was being railroaded, and even today make claims the tapes were rigged. Corruption and power. I don't trust ANY gov't, and when gov't documents appear that justify my concern, I realize the gov't is NOT my friend. For those who classify this as alarmist, I ask you how much power are you willing to give? I live in an area where a Home Owners Association was taken over by a zealot, who was riding around the neighborhood on a bicycle with a ruler, measuring peoples grass, fining them under authority vested in him ...... He'd made up so many rules, people were actually selling their homes to get away from the madness. Another had purchased a gavel, and was summoning neighbors to his "courtroom", and charging them with contempt when they told him to fnck off. The state upheld his "court"! It can't happen here? Only if you hide your head in the sand, and repeat often enough "it can't happen here".
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#23450 - 07/30/10 04:01 PM
Re: Mandatory circumcisons
[Re: skinback]
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old hand
Registered: 04/03/10
Posts: 443
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Ummm...off on what tangent have you gone? Or conspiracy theory? Homeowners Associations run amok don't lead to mandatory American circumcision, either.
You are free to think what you want. You are free to fear the government. I just don't agree with you.
_________________________
A lusty, turned-on woman in full roar is the ultimate aphrodisiac.
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#23615 - 08/04/10 03:38 AM
Re: Mandatory circumcisons
[Re: Firefly]
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old hand
Registered: 07/15/10
Posts: 413
Loc: United States
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Sorry-- I fully admit to not reading everything here yet... short on time. But I have to say that while I realize things can happen.. it sounds pretty farfetched to me that circumcision would be required. Few of us would have believed that we would, in a free country, be forced under the threat of IRS penalty, to buy something we neither need nor want, strictly for the political satisfaction of a few power hungry over-zealous politicos, but here we are. It's a real, and now documented threat. The body you live in is now claimed as US government property, and you are rapidly losing your right to decide what you can and cannot do with it. In addition to your healthcare and lifestyle decisions, other steps already being pushed include government control over what you're allowed to eat, and soon to come will be an American version of Japanese "Metabo", where the government monitors your weight, and fines you for not meeting their established permissible ranges. Mandatory circumcision, under the guise of economically and medically expedient government health care policy, is already on the CDC agenda, is on the way, and will get very little opposition based on the spineless acceptance of a now docile and subservient American public. http://www.allvoices.com/s/event-4058635...GF0b3J5Lmh0bWw=
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