I know your brains are all wound up on routines and measurements, imagining if you can just add that quarter of an inch, so you can hammer the end of her vagina. It's gonna be hard to stop your escalated brains. All I can say is.. You have absolutely no ... idea of what you are dealing with.

There are serious problems that can happen to your penis from these exercises, and I am a living proof. It's actually a lot of people that experience some degree of erectile dysfunction, soft glans etc from it. There are posts about these things on the enlargement forums, but you don't really notice them or pay attention to them. Because you believe people did something extreme, until you are there yourself.

To say it short, I have a condition of soft glans and poor erections, from heavy jelqing. I will go to Taiwan (The only place the procedure is performed) to have it hopefully fixed and it will cost me 10,000$+. Not to mention the 2 years it has taken to find the best solution, and the serious mental depression that came with it.

It will twist your stomach like you never have felt when you hear from your urologist that the function of the venous occlusive system of the glans is "NOT known". In other words, they do not know how it works. This means also that there is no accepted "fix". You will go to 3 urologists, and they will tell you there is nothing that can be done. The penis is a very delicate organ, and many many times more complex than other parts of our body. We can do almost anything with bones muscles and ligaments, and other stuff, but the penis is not something you fix very easily. Also, after my research, I'm personally quite concerned about the long term effect of penis exercises, even for those that avoid abrupt trauma.

Yes I know it feels fantastic to walk around with that enlarged post-exercise soft penis bulging in your jeans. You really feel like the man with a huuge M. But I can't even start to explain how this turns on you like a vicious mental beast, when you wake up without morning wood, and have real trouble to make it hard.

One problem of the internet is that it's over-flooded with opinions from people who have understood just enough to argue for their point of view. This is a problem of personal internet research. We get so excited when we barely start to understand something. But we are not able to have an objective view, until our knowledge base is so broad that we can see both sides of the coin. There is not really any topic where this could be more dangerous, than with respect to penis enlargement.

So please! Appreciate that your penis is working as it is, and instead concentrate on using it as much as possible, and train on other interesting stuff like multiple orgasms, ballooning etc.


I would wish for the sake of all people on this forum that this post was a sticky. But that's not up to me.

perhaps you can share what your routine was that contributed to these problems, and also how long you practiced these exercises.

Your post should cause concern in anyone practicing jelquing or PE, but raises a lot of questions. I understand that discussing your problem in depth might be unpleasant but I would appreciate it if you could answer any of the following questions.

Do you experience complete impotence or reduced quality of erection? Is this an intermittent problem or persistant?

What is your age? Do you have any concomminant medical conditions that could be contributing to this problem such as diabetes or hypertension? Do you smoke?

You suggest that you have been evaluated by three urologists. Have you undergone a complete evalutation for impotence including testosterone level determination and NPT (nocturnal penile tumescence) monitoring? Have all of the urologists told you that the problem is due to "venous leak"? Did they detect any physical signs of penile injury?

What type of surgery are you contemplating having done?

Are both you and your urologists convinced that the problem was the direct result of PE? Given the fact that erectile dysfunction has clearly been identified as a very prevalent male disorder, and not infrequently is observed even in younger than expected individuals, what evidence do you have that PE was the direct cause of the problem? In other words, how can you be sure that your ED did not just happen to develop coincidentally as you were practicing PE?

Have you posted your experience on other forums such as PE Gym, Thunder's Place, Matters of Size or Cheeky Cherry?

What types of "exercises" were you doing? Was there a specific incident or injury that you attribute your problem to? Did the problem develop abruptly or gradually? If it developed gradually, did you quit doing PE when you first became aware of the problem?

I'm not questioning your experience, but I think any additional information that you could provide on any of the above points would be very helpful in avoiding injury to others, if you truely believe that PE is dangerous.

Hi guys!
I will make a very detailed response to your questions as soon as I have time. At the moment I am in Taipei for the surgery, enjoying lovely Asian food in the meantime.

The detailed questions you bring up are certainly very good. But I think my answers will not give any contraindications from my first post.. So I advice you to take it easy.

Good luck with the surgery. Let us know the results when you can.

Anything can be abused- that includes PE exercises. Sensible PE- done with caution, restraint, and with slow but regular progression sequences will usually yield great results without injuries. The goal with PE should be a bigger, healthier penis.

Softglans, I'm sorry to hear what you're going through but you yourself admitted to "heavy jelqing". A beginner shouldn't be doing "heavy" anything. Intensity takes time to tolerate.
Have you had a cavernosagram done? This procedure will determine what may be wrong with you.

Your posting on this thread is quite a big conflict of interest, as your profile advertises for a website with pay-subscription for PE advice. I think your comment requires no further response than that.

???

Frankly I'm a bit offended at your unnecessarily hostile remark. My intention was to help you.

I've provided plenty of free advice on this forum alone with no strings attached, and my status as a sponsor of this site doesn't make the information in my post any less valid.

Al does run PE pay sites but he also posts advice and answers questions here. Yes, he is in business but he also dispenses advice for free here. His input is of value and he offers some pearls of wisdom now and then!

Common courtesy costs nothing and manners maketh the man.

Thanks

George

I have been thinking about this a lot ever since I read this post about a month ago.

I just started PE'ing 3 weeks ago.

Just to let you know I do know what I'm talking about. I am currently a medical student, and I will be graduating in 4 months. Then have to give the board exams and hopefully become a resident within a year.

I'm not going to purposely go into a lot of technical mumbo jumbo, keeping it simple so everyone can understand.

The penis is a very expandable and resilient organ. Imagine something so small, which enlarges to a bigger size and can stay there for a considerable amount of time. When you are performing enlargement exercises all you are doing is expanding and stretching your unit to an extreme for a very short amount of time, hence expanding its walls temporarily which eventually becomes permanent over time. Basically all you're doing is shocking your unit in small doses.

YOU ARE NOT STRETCHING IT SO THAT IT RIPS OUT, AND YOU ARE NOT APPLYING PRESSURE FOR A CONTINUOUS 5 MINS.

I wanted to stress that part, cuz there is a big difference in doing exercises to damage your unit and doing exercises that can expand it for a very short period like 30 sec to a minute.

Now when I read about your injury, I started thinking about what could possibly have happened. I came up with 3 reasons as to how anyone could suffer an injury PEing.

1. You have some type of congenital weakness in the structure of your penis. Someone who is already having erection problems, or a venous leak, soft glans should try and treat the underlying cause before applying any unnecessary pressure. Its like a guy with a bruised, swollen ankle who goes out to play competitive football. You are looking for more trouble.

2. As a beginner you might not know the proper technique of the the exercise. As with any exercise you have to follow the technique to ensure you do it properly. Similarly, jelqing has a technique. I won't go into extensive details, but you are supposed to apply pressure on the sides and the bottom (thats where the blood is stored in the penis). You are NOT supposed to apply pressure to the top of the shaft or the glans. There are sensitive veins and nerves in these areas that you don't want to damage.

3. You have to build up gradually just like any exercise. For example if you do squats for the first time and you throw on 250 pounds, you are looking for trouble. Similarly when you start jelqing and stretching, do it nice and slow and let your penis accommodate to this new activity before increasing intensity.


Now your problem is that you have a soft glans which you say you got after jelqing.

- You might have already had a soft glans before jelqing and you were not aware of it. It got worse with the jelqing.
- You might have jelqed the wrong way and damaged a vein or the glans itself (remember you are not supposed to apply pressure to the top of the shaft or the glans)
- You might have started off with a high intensity from the start having not allowed your penis to accommodate (you mention heavy jelqing in your post).


I completely believe in PE, it makes sense medically in theory and in practice.

I will continue to PE for the rest of my life, and I will even urge my future patients to do so. That's how much faith I have in this. There is absolutely nothing wrong with PE medically, AS LONG AS IT'S DONE PROPERLY AND WITH THE RIGHT PRECAUTIONS.

I realize that this information does not help you now, and I really hope that your surgery goes really well. I hope you recover full functionality of your penis. I also hope that this information might help and guide those that are new to PE or interested in starting.

Ok guys. It took me a while to get into posting mood. I been on the worst mental roller coaster of my life during the last weeks, with fear of suffering from chronic post operation pain making erection impossible. I have literally faced the life going completely down the drain, and I assure you, it's a very different thing to imagine that, and to really feel it. But now I seem to be on a good healing track, so I have not much worries now, and feel great. Better than ever during last 2 years

I respond to your posts top-down:


perhaps you can share what your routine was that contributed to these problems, and also how long you practiced these exercises.
I was doing this for several months, and I had a very high focus on warmup and warmdown routines. One day I just jelqed a bit harder than before, and that was too much. I did a type of jelq where I rolled my penis against a round edge of a bathroom bench, with the thumb rounded on top pushing down. This gave a nice uniform jelq and previously gave very nice post-workout feeling and volume. So not a standard jelq, but quite similar in pressure and movement. It was a one-exercise trauma. Yes I did somewhat increase my force during that session compared to what I had previously done. Not too much, but perhaps 10-15%. I did not do PE after that session.


Your post should cause concern in anyone practicing jelquing or PE, but raises a lot of questions. I understand that discussing your problem in depth might be unpleasant but I would appreciate it if you could answer any of the following questions.

Do you experience complete impotence or reduced quality of erection? Is this an intermittent problem or persistant?
The modern medical term for impotence is erectile dysfunction. I say that because most cases of patients with erectile dysfunction do not have 100% lack of erection, but rather difficulties with getting erections without continuous stimuli, or difficulties to “hold them” long enough. Indeed I was in this category. I had completely lost rigidity in the glans and corpus spongosium, and I had weak morning erection, as well as total lack of spontaneous erections. I needed direct visual or physical stimuli to get an erection. And only a few seconds of the brain going “off focus”, made it start to fall down. The condition was persistent, and still is 2 years after.

What is your age? Do you have any concomminant medical conditions that could be contributing to this problem such as diabetes or hypertension? Do you smoke?
I’m 31. I have a perfect health, athletic body, I don’t smoke and I work out about 3 times a week.

You suggest that you have been evaluated by three urologists. Have you undergone a complete evalutation for impotence including testosterone level determination and NPT (nocturnal penile tumescence) monitoring? Have all of the urologists told you that the problem is due to "venous leak"? Did they detect any physical signs of penile injury?
Urologist 1:
Prescribe me Cialis. Has the opinion that it’s a psychological condition, and says if it doesn’t help there is nothing to do, you just have to live with it. Is not able to admit that the head should be rigid, implying that I have misunderstood my condition.
Urologist 2: (supposedly the best in my country)
Exactly the same as urologist 1.
Urologist 3:
After my research, looked like the most experienced on ED in the whole Europe. Also chairman of the Standards Committee for Sexual Medicine of the International Society for Sexual Medicine.
No test performed, other than ultrasound. He has treated several patients before, for same condition, by venous ligation. He gives the procedure a 30% success rate. He confirmed my condition as a typical venous leak, based on my trauma history and current condition. We schedule for operation, however I cancelled when I later found out about a more experienced surgeon.
PS: It should be understood that most urologist actually have no clue when it comes to these type of problems. I know now a guy who went to 19 urologists until he finally got help for his condition. This is partly because the surgery for erectile dysfunction is not generally accepted due to poor results, so only performed on so called experimental basis.

What type of surgery are you contemplating having done?
A 3-4 hour operation, resecting the deep dorsal vein and parts of the cavernosal veins with about 50 ligations of contributers. NOTE: This surgery is considered experimental, is extremely difficult, and I believed only performed by 2 doctors globally.

Are both you and your urologists convinced that the problem was the direct result of PE? Given the fact that erectile dysfunction has clearly been identified as a very prevalent male disorder, and not infrequently is observed even in younger than expected individuals, what evidence do you have that PE was the direct cause of the problem? In other words, how can you be sure that your ED did not just happen to develop coincidentally as you were practicing PE?
Pre trauma I was a very strong performer in sex, in all aspects. I had perfect morning wood and usually many spontaneous erections any day. I could have sex for a long time, 40min or more was normal, I had no problem giving women vaginal orgasm, and I was very confident with my ability to perform and had always played a strong and dominating role during sex. So there is no psychological issue. Also the trauma was very imminent, meaning the condition came after one single session, and remained. Hence there is no doubt about this being the one and only cause.

Have you posted your experience on other forums such as PE Gym, Thunder's Place, Matters of Size or Cheeky Cherry?
I lost total interest of reading the forums after this trauma occurred. But I read other threads with similar problems. And it’s quite common to see two things: 1. They often get harassed and accused of trolling. 2. They seem to stop posting after a short while, as they find no help on the forum. One such thread for example here: http://www.thundersplace.org/forum/showthread.php?t=87865&page=1&pp=15

What types of "exercises" were you doing? Was there a specific incident or injury that you attribute your problem to? Did the problem develop abruptly or gradually? If it developed gradually, did you quit doing PE when you first became aware of the problem?
Exercise described above. The condition developed from one day to the other, as direct result of a single session. I did not PE after this session.

Yes, I admit I did read a bit more between your lines than what is justified. I will explain that the reason for this is that your profile and posting fit what I typically often have seen on PE forums, where moderators and people with self-interest debunk threads and accuse poster of trolling etc, and have a complete one-sided view.

Conflict of interest is a normal and justified issue that always should be brought to attention, and it's meant no personal offense to you in doing so.

haga:

Honestly your post does not resemble the writing of a medical student. If you really are, I will advice you to have a more conservative and objective approach with your future clients. Most PE methods are not currently supported by any scientific research, and hence a medical professional (or student) should take the appropriate caution, and at the very least not promote it with a number of strong statements in capital letters. Also as a medical student (?) you should know that treatment for erectile dysfunction is currently still very limited and with rather unsatisfactory results. This should also make any doctor or medical student very careful and conservative in advocating anything that put abnormal strain on the penis.

Who by the way is doing exercises for less than 1 minute as you suggest? On PE forums it’s common to see people doing strong clamping or hanging sessions for 15-30min, with minimal or no rest in between.

I can also assure you that I did not have any whatsoever indication of ED or soft glans prior to this trauma. I have actually a very strong and resilient body in all aspects, with excellent genes. My penis has always been very potent and with really hard both shaft and glans.

So guys.. When all this is said, I of course acknowledge that I overdid my exercise, I put too much pressure on, there is no doubt about that. But there is no indication of any other contributing factor.

I have no agenda to stop people from PE’ing, although I think that is a wise choice. I just want people to be aware of the risk that they put themselves through. Because the information available is not balanced or anywhere close to it.

When you look at forums around internet, it’s incredible how men and boys get totally brain-blocked about their penis. I see a guy with 16-17cm of 100% healthy penis, going through traumatic enlargement surgery with a bunch of unexpected complications and poor results (link at bottom). And we have more normal PE’ers who beats up their penis in various ways. It’s well known that most men suffer from some degree of erectile dysfunction at some point in the later life. So even if you avoid abrupt injury, the long term effects are very questionable.

This is kind of subjective opinion, but: Whatever exercise you do, you will always be pushing against some sort of intensity threshold. And what people don't realize is that the threshold between gains and permanent injury is really really narrow. As I had performed the same exercise for several months, without any issue or bad PI or what they call it. It's not like a wide band where you can find a comfortable and safe pace. And you never know how close you really are at any point. One day you make a slight adjustment, and holy god, you ruined it. It’s also my strong belief, that in order to get any gains, if at all possible, you need to push extremely close to the injury limit, but you don't know that you are actually doing so. I had not seen any length gains during my exercises, only probably temporarily width gains.

What I would like to end with is what I think is the most important aspect of it all. And that is risk analysis. Most people defending PE compare it to other type of exercise of muscles etc, saying that anything can be overdone and cause injury if done improperly. Yes, that is true, but it’s many factors with the penis which makes the risk 10-folds higher than any other activity. For example:

- We don’t know completely how the penis and erection function
- Many penis injuries does not self-heal like a strained muscle or a broken bone
- It doesn’t exist surgical procedures for fixing many penis injuries
- Penis surgery is very complex, and many surgeons destroy the penis and make conditions worse
- If you destroy your penis, you have destroyed the most important thing a man has, destroyed your life and will likely feel a strong desire to suicide

Hence, when we talk about risk.. what is it? Is it the probability that an injury can occur? No.. Many people think so, but that is not risk. If you have any experience with construction/engineering etc (I’m an engineer), you will know that the probability of an event is only half of the equation:

Risk = Probability x Consequence

In the case of PE, the consequence factor is extremely high. It is complete mental breakdown and loss of a majority of the quality of life. The risk is hence severe, even if you think the probability for injury is pretty low.

This risk we trade for what? For “perhaps” a quarter of an inch or half an inch in length? Oh, did we not know that length is not very important for the woman? Do we succeed much in girth exercise? Temporarily or permanent?

Well guys, I leave these things open for anyone to judge. As said before, I do not have an agenda here other than to help people continue their life as they expect. I just can see that the information on the internet is quite dangerous, and at the same time very addictive to the man’s brain. Many men have complexes about their penis and sexual performance, and are easily tempted to this type of activity. Myself was not one of them. I was extremely confident and very good performer, always making the girls exhausted from pleasure. Still I came down this route… Why? Well, I’m a bit of perfectionist, and I think whatever size dick a man has, he will almost always want it a bit longer or thicker, to see how the girls will react. And I was excited about the beginning temporary effects of increased girth. So you know, it’s really really stupid in the end. The risk that we put on, for what? I feel it’s a really bad trade.

Extra:
For anyone stupid enough to consider enlargement surgery, please read this thread

My cousin is paralyzed from the waist down. He used to be a body builder. 20 years ago while exercising incorrectly he compressed a nerve in his spine, and ever since he's been bed ridden.

2 days ago I came across a patient in the hospital suffering from severe pain in his forearm upon any movement. It was on the lateral aspect of the right forearm.

I asked him the complete history and he mentioned that he was in the gym, and while doing military presses his arm just started hurting.

I asked him if he had done anything wrong or lifted too heavy. He said no. It didn't make any sense.

At the end of the day the guy called me over and said that he saw this guy doing military presses in a standing position and getting impressed he did the same. It was the first time he tried it.

Currently he has a tear in his brachioradialis muscle. He will be out of any physical action for the next 3-4 months.

Does this mean body building is dangerous?

What I'm saying, is that most injuries during any kind of training exercise are due to the individual's own mistakes.

By the way before starting PE I have studied the penis intensively and while performing the exercises I have studied the dynamics of the exercise. If done properly there is absolutely nothing wrong with it.

I don't want to sound rude because I'm not trying to be. Any kind of injury is very hard to deal especially an injury of the penis. I just feel that something you did was wrong. I might not know the whole story, but like I said if done properly the chances of an injury are miniscule.

I never condoned clamping, and I never condoned any activity applying pressure for 15 minutes. All I said was that simple jelqing if done correctly cannot lead to erectile dysfunction. I personally think people who clamp are also looking for trouble. They should do it at their own discretion.

You are completely right about treatment of erectile dysfunction. I would say its not something that any specialist understands. Surgery is usually hit and miss, and whatever positive results there are let me assure they are more due to luck than expertise. Which is why I said I hope your surgery goes well and you recover. If it was a simple in/out operation I would have said you will be fine after surgery.

There are dangers associated with any kind of training. An individual who prepares properly and takes the right precautions reduces these to a major extent.

I know you are angry at this point of time. It's pretty clear and very understandable. I would be ready to kill someone right about now if I had problems with my penis. I hope this anger and resentment has not clouded your judgment.

This is by no means to anger or mock you in anyway, but I suggest some counseling sessions. This is a very mentally disturbing problem and I'm sure you have a lot of pent up anger and frustration.

Helping to deal with a problem mentally might help dealing with it physically.

haga,

Thanks for your post, advice and concerns. I like it more than the first one, which I felt was not very balanced/objective. I may come across as sharp and perhaps angry, but I am absolutely not angry or frustrated in any form, believe me. But I am a very straitght talker, and can therefor come across quite sharp in my words. But this has nothing to do with these events, it's just the way I communicate, my personality. Quite direct, and a bit confronting, when I feel appropriate. And if anyone to blame, it's just myself anyway. And there is not any point nor time for that. I'm very happy now that I will be fully recovered, allthough I'm not yet, I'm confident I will be in a few weeks.

What I want to stress is that we have the complete wrong focus on this. We only think about the probability of injury, but what we really should focus on is the consequence. Would you take 10,000$ from me, if you had to accept a 5% chance of death? I think not. That's just an example. We only discuss the probability of injury. But it doesn't really matter if the probability is 1% or 5% or 10%. When the consequence is so high, this is a risk that it is smart to stay away from at almost any probability.

I feel sorry for your cousin, but I don't think this is an appropriate comparison. Bodybuilding has a purpose and is a lifestyle or sport, and is 100% proven to work as intended. There is no question if bodybuilding is useful, or if it at all works. With PE these questions are highly debatable. A huge part experience no or extremely small gains. Many people are also teenagers, and still in natural growth period. The injury you describe also sounds like a one in a million accident, while there is actually not a negligable amount of people reporting ED issues from PE, from what I see on the forums. I feel very few actually get any benifit from PE. Other than some mental stimuli from temporarily thicker post-workout penis.

Is it worth it? I think not. I feel it's more close to a mental obsession.. Unrealistic both in terms of positive expectancy and negligance of involved risk.

Again, I appretiate your concerns. But I'm very much at peace and positive now. I'm young, I'm handsome, I'm single, I have a nice working dick(slight assumption).. What more can I ask for? It's easy to get the impression over internet that people who are this unlucky also are mentally weak. But I'm not a person who let myself tip over as long as there is a way ahead. And now I have no obstacles in my view. I may have been down in the gutter one and a half week ago, but now I'm on a wing-suit (for those who are into skydiving). Yes I had a couple of hard years with this, but I'm not looking back. And it's not useless, all experience that ends good always brings some positives.

I'm asking myself if I can have a more split view on this, can it be PE'd safely? I'm not sure, to some extent you can say that if you are currently PE'ing, and will not change your method to more harsh, you should be rather safe. But are you able to be that consistent? And what about people starting up? How are they supposed to know the threshold? And again you have the question of long term effects. What happens when you get 50? Could it trigger ED 10-15 years earlier in your older life? I don't know. But again, every argument just fades for me, because I see the potential for gains so limited and useless. It's more than anything just the need for you to cross that half-inch mark so you can just know that you are that size. Is this really the only way you can feel like a man, to cross that mark? Well, let's hope it doesn't back-fire..

oi.. long post again.. I would just like to repeat your quote again about treatment of ED. Ultimately every person will make his own judgment on this, but these are facts that I feel everyone at least should be aware of.. And I think most people don't think about this before they have to, unfortunately.

Well I'm interested in your surgery. Could you please give me extensive details about it. I will not come across a case like this every day.

Where did you find this surgeon?
What investigations did he perform pre-surgery and what were the findings?
What was the name of the operation?
What did he EXACTLY do during the surgery?
What medication were you prescribed post-op?
How long did it take for you to recover?
How well did you recover?

It might be hard but could you put in as much medical jargon that you are familiar with, or that the doctor discussed with you. This kind of stuff always makes more sense the more detailed it is.

haga,
This is a slight side-topic, so I will PM you with some more detailed information soon.

For general interest I can just mention that this surgery is currently not pursued by any other doctor, is likely not possible to replicate successfully for most surgeons, without extensive practice, and in danger of completely disappear after the not too many years this doctor has left as active surgeon. So in reality this is nothing people can rely on for the future. ED is still a condition with poor and few options to heal. I consider myself very lucky to get out of this.

Understood. I would still like to help you, so a response to my question would be appreciated. You certainly don't have to answer me, but it would be worth looking into for your own personal and financial health before opting for a surgery that is likely unnecessary and potentially dangerous in its own right.

There doesn't have to be. Overdoing PE is enough to cause ED and, in severe cases, injury.



I disagree. Most of the sensible forums out there have plenty of high quality information and guidance, and aside from a few extremists, most advocate a slow, sensible approach to PE.



I've known men who have done PE and related activities for over 10 years that are still going strong. They key is doing it sensibly



I completely disagree with this line of thinking. There is certainly a distinct area between undertraining and overtraining, and IMO it's better to undertrain than to overtrain- for obvious reasons. It's my opinion from the post that you've just made that you've been training very close to the egde and it was just a matter of time before you got hurt.



Please tell me that this particular point of yours is a joke. I could fill this page with written accounts of how erections occur and how the penis functions.



That depends on the extent of the injury. The penis is a remarkably tough organ and should last you for as long as you live if you treat it right.



Again you cite things in absolutes. As an engineer, you should know that there are shades of grey. Not all penile surgeries are complex, and medical science has come a long way towards dealing with penile deformities and injuries that were once considered impossible to deal with.



Another post of yours in which I disagree. You can use that equation for everything from the dangers of dying from stubbing your toe to it raining zucchinis and make it work if you alter the probability enough.



This one's even worse: http://www.peforum.net/forum/showthread.php?t=8789