I think my gf and I are in a role-reversal situation. She needs about zero foreplay, and I need a lot. How do we get around this apparent disconnect?

Well, she wants me inside her immediately, and that in combination with the mini-rabbit clit vibrator and breast stimulation gets her off within about 1 minute and again and again. When she's exhausted, it's my turn to get my hand and mouth stimulation (in essence, the foreplay becomes midplay). When I'm close to orgasm I'll penetrate her again and cum insider her, usually with her on top.

disconnect the vibe, Graham.
I've been there.

Of the 14 or so female partners I have had, roughly half have appeared to orgasm from vaginal penetration without manual clitoral stimulation from fingers, vibrators, etc. I say "appeared" because I have no way of knowing for certain that some weren't faking orgasm. Unless women have obvious physical manifestations of orgasm, like sudden pronounced nipple erections, obvious blush responses, or gushing, I don't know that I could be certain that they were having an orgasm. In other words, I don't think facial expression and a lot of moaning are reliable indicators.

I didn't say from vaginal penetration alone, because most of the time I supect these women were receiving significant indirect clitoral stimulation from pelvic contact. In fact, in my experience they usually achieved orgasm with deep penetration and a lot of sustained pubic bone contact with rocking and grinding rather than thrusting.

Of the sexual relationships I have had which extended beyond "casual" I have only known three women who could pretty consistantly orgasm that way. Not every time, but most times. Of these three, one would not permit manual or oral stimulation of her clitoris or vulva, whether due to inhibitions or oversensitivity, I don't know. They all preferred to be on top, facing, and usually as they approached orgasm they preferred me to remain relatively passive as they controlled depth of penetration, angle and movement.

I never asked these women whether these orgasms were different than those resulting from direct clitoral stimulation. Indeed, with one I never observed her to have an orgasm from direct clitoral stimulation, although she may certainly have done so with other partners, or through masturbation. To me, the not entirely impartial observer, they seemd different. "Clitoral orgasms" (in those women in whom I had observed both, seemed more frenetic, building to a very intense peak, after which they could not tolerate any additional clitoral stimulation. The "vaginal" orgasms seemed different, building up more slowly, less frantic in nature, but perhaps more sustained, and judging from these women's facial expressions, seemed to be accompanied by a sensation of deep release from sexual tension. Also, when these orgasms happened, the women were more than happy to continue intercourse and occasionally would come again.

With my wife, to whom I have been married 25+ years, "vaginal" orgasms have been quite infrequent. Once again, these have invariably happened with her on top. I have done my best to duplicate the technique and circumstances with which they have occured in hopes of repeating the experience, but without success. When it has happened neither of us expected it and it was almost like a fluke. I really don't believe it has anything to do with what I am/was doing.

We don't use sex toys, and if she has used a vibrator, I don't know about it. I can nearly always bring her to orgasm with cunnilingus, sometimes with digital stimulation, and occasionally she climaxes by placing my erect penis between her legs and sliding her vulva and clit back and forth on it, sort of like "dry humping" (only it is anything but dry). For whatever reason, when she orgasms this way she nearly always wants me inside her as quickly as that can be accomplished, although she only very rarely climaxes again. I don't know if it prolongs her orgasm, changes it somehow, or simply feels especially good to her at that instant.

I have asked a couple of prior female sex partners who never orgasmed from penetration, whether the act seemed kind of pointless to them, apart from giving their partner pleasure. Every one I asked emphatically stated that they enjoyed it, and it felt really, really good, but they just didn't come that way.

PBL posted a video, which I watched, and suggested that penis size might play a role in determining the liklihood of a woman orgasming with vaginal intercourse. With regards to the video, I myself would not be able to say with certainty that the Thai woman was definitely having orgasms. It is always hard to judge penis size from a video, but judging from the relative size of that petite Thai woman's hands, I would judge that the guy's penis, while above average in size, was not huge. My guess is that he was about my size. Once again, half or fewer of the women I have had sex with have orgasmed without direct digital or oral clitoral stimulation.

I am curious whether size plays any role in determining the liklihood of female orgasm during penis/vagina sexual intercourse. My guess is that it is relatively independent of size and depends much more on the woman. I would welcome any female responses.

I don't think size has anything to do with it. I've had different sizes, and have never orgasmed just from pentration alone.

I do want to share something I've been tossing around in my head for awhile (I may have mentioned it before). The clitoris is actually a lot larger then most people realize. Only a very tiny tip of it is seen, and the rest of it extends into the womans body and down around her vulva. I've been wondering if vaginal orgasms are still orgasms attached to the clitoris-- just a different part of the clit. Maybe the inner part of the clitoris in some women is just more easily stimulated then in others. Maybe some women need the direct stimulation of the tip that is exposed, while others are fine with the stimulation of the inner parts of the clitoris.

Maybe orgasms- if triggered from different areas of the clit actually feel different. Well, for example-- when someone runs their fingers over the inner- bend in my arm, it feels different then if the run their fingers over the outer bend of my arm. Its the same thing-- an arm-- but the sensations are different.

Of course this is all just conjecture on my part. I really don't know for sure.

It does seem that g-spot orgasms come from a different location that clit orgasms-- but maybe clit and vaginal orgasms are more closely related then we think. Just from different areas of the clit.

I have personally felt vaginal muscle spasms and such-- almost like mini-orgasms-- from inside my vagina without any clitoral contact (sometimes just thinking about sex will do that), but never what I can call a full-blown orgasm. I can feel when my husband is hitting and stimulating my g-spot with his dick-- and thats a different feeling, and I get really strong orgasms from my clit.

myrealname-- I'm glad you do say that the women "appeared" to orgasm from vaginal penetration. Because I think a lot of times, women appear to, but really aren't. And it doesn't even mean that they are willfully faking it either. They could just really be enjoying it! I know I've really enjoyed it, and have appeared to cum as well-- but I don't lie and say I did if I didn't. I NEVER have faked it. It does me no good and it does a man no good. And the women who do fake- do not only themselves and the men a disservice- but they do women who don't fake a disservice as well. Men tend to wonder whats wrong with the next woman- if shes doesn't have screaming orgasms like the one before them-- never realizing that the one before was faking the whole time.

Interesting comments, myrealname. I think you're correct about not being able to tell if a woman orgasmed or not. I faked a few times when I was very young, but for my part I was never certain that the men really believed my fakery. Such is the nature of deception, I think. In any case, I decided early on that it was pointless and I never faked again.

Addressing some of your other comments ...

Concerning "clitoral" orgasms vs "vaginal" orgasms: the sensations leading up to the orgasm are different. I could be wrong, but I don't think there is an analogy for men. But then from the point that the orgasm starts, they're the same.

It very definitely feels good to be "filled up" with a penis, whether or not I orgasm from it. My partners are very considerate in that they make sure I orgasm first before they enter me. That ensures that I'm very wet, and it also makes it easier for me to orgasm from the penetration. But even if I don't orgasm, I don't feel as much frustration and "incompleteness" as I think men do. At my age, my partners don't normally ejaculate too quickly, so I usually get as much intercourse as I need. That doesn't guarantee I will orgasm, but I don't feel "cheated".

Regarding size ... as I've mentioned before, penis size doesn't really matter as long as it's within a certain critical range. I've never seen a man whose penis was so small that he couldn't function sexually. On the other hand, I am a small woman and I encountered one penis in my life that I knew was too big for me. I was apprehensive that he would rearrange my internal organs. I was able to use my legs to keep him from penetrating too deeply and he came quickly anyway. Whether because of his monster or not, he was not a very good lover.




I think you're absolutely right, Firefly. For me, the sensation feels different, yet the same. You know what I mean. It think it was Masters and Johnson who claimed that there was only one kind of orgasm, and they didn't know about the g-spot. They didn't know how right they were.

And speaking of sex research, isn't it funny that women have been having orgasms since we lived in caves, but female sexuality is still considered so mysterious. I wonder how much of that is because in the past the researchers were almost always men. And did you know that in Victorian England women who enjoyed sex "too much" were considered mentall ill and thrown into asylums.

Also, gyn exams had to be done with the woman fully clothed. I have an amusing drawing from that era, showing a woman standing as the doctor puts his hand up her dress to feel her up ... err ... I mean, examine her.

I think if a man knows his partner's body and reflexes well enough he can tell if she is having an orgasm or not. If he can't tell it's either that he doesn't know her very well, is prepared to play along to save face or just doesn't care. One thing that I cannot fake is my elevated heartbeat as well as obvious signs such as the sexual flush which myrealname mentioned. I also doubt if I could manage to fake muscle tension, vaginal contractions, increased wetness, breathlessness, moaning, and trembling all at the same time.

As I've mentioned in other posts, I'm capable of orgasm from stimulation to any part of my body including my ears. As Carole mentioned an orgasm is an orgasm but I find they vary in intensity according to where the focus is. If they are from direct stimulation to my clitoris, they are very intense and exhausting and my clitoris will be too sensitive for further stimulation. If they occur from anywhere else including vaginal penetration, I can keep going and going until my partner orgasms or loses interest.

I don't believe that the size of my partner's penis is not as important as the fact that he has learnt to take me to such high levels of arousal originally from his mouth and hands. Nowadays though, I am so used to being so orgasmic that I can orgasm immediately after penetration with little effort on his part. I have even orgasmed from stimulating him by hand or mouth - that is where the power of the mind comes into it.

I suspect that you are correct and a man who is familiar with a woman's physical response to orgasm will usually be able to tell. But in a casual encounter or brief affair it may not be so easy.

Some women are much more subtle than others when they climax and may not have the strong vaginal contractions, blushing, trembling and tensing of the extensor muscles that others do. But those who do have the full-blown response are a delight to me, and I suspect most other men.

I agree that the woman's state of mind plays a big role in whether or not she orgasms, much more so than a man's (although thoughts of work, financial troubles, etc during sex can definitely prevent a guy from coming). That is why I take exception to the notion expressed by some women (usually the younger and less experienced ones) that a guy should be able to "make her come" or "give her an orgasm".

Surely clumbsy, oafish and insensitive male lovers do exist, but I sincerely believe that if the woman is not in the appropriate frame of mind, I don't think it matters what the guy does. And I think most guys have been in the situation where they are doing their best to try to please their partner and everything they do, or suggest doing, is "wrong".

Yes I agree that some women's responses are sometimes more subtle than others and, believe it or not, unless you actually see or smell the semen, it's often not obvious if a guy has cum either. I've never orgasmed in a casual relationship, I've never faked and the guys involved didn't seem to notice or care. I realise not all men are like that but that would be the most likely situation in which a guy couldn't tell for real if the woman did fake.

If a guy isn't hitting the right spots, in my eyes that really is where it is up to the woman to pluck up the courage to teach him what works for her unless they really are terribly mismatched in which case she's not planning on sleeping with him again.

Don't you hate that? One of the best parts about having sex is enjoying your partner's orgasm. I love it when a man cums so hard, it's like I'm the best he's ever had.




More reasons why casual sex isn't very satisfying.

Hmmm... I've had some casual sex in the past that was VERY satisfying. Guess I'm one of those women who doesn't always need it to be a "soul connection".

You know, about the cumming hard thing-- a lot of men worry about that as well. Its not something that they can really control that much, so when they don't cum really hard, some feel inadequate because of it. Though I suppose it may be possible- I don't think how hard a man cums is a reflection on the woman he is with. Sometimes- it just doesn't happen like that.

You're a horny little thing! LOL

I don't need a "soul connection" (wasn't that a TV show with Dick Clark???), but I do require the guy tell me his name first ...

That would be one of my worst nightmares if my wife slept with some other guy and she got a vaginal orgasm and all she wanted was to have more sex because of it. I have a fantasy in which my wife and I want to have a baby.But I can't have one, so I fantasize of us going to Ecuador where she was born and the fantasy would be that it was so expensive to have invitro firtilization,so in a clincal situation,women would have to have plain intercourse and it would be a widely accepted thing .So I would be in the room looking at her and the guy kept from
doing thrust as much as possible and he would be standing up with my wife on a white stretcher laying on her back right up to the edge of the strecher.Then I would have to watch the guy
slowly penetrate her vagina after a couple of tries that his penis finally goes slowly inside of me.

I find that exciting for some reason but if that had really happened in real life, my heart would be broken. I know it because if I get into that fantasy and take a reality check,it would devastate me.

Aren't we all really horny?!

Yeah-- even in a casual encounter, mutual like and respect is required for me. I was never into one night stands with men I didn't know. My casual encounters were with men I knew and liked-- and even a long-term lover who I think very fondly of to this day. I'm not an anonymous sex kind of person.

Ah, I see. For you, "casual" is not the same as "anonymous". I'm on your wavelength now

Yeah-- probably should have clarified that. Casual sex to me, is sex without strings attached and without a dating/being together kind of thing.