I can't help but wonder who is or is'nt christain on here. I would like to know so I can answer you guys better.

I am.

Me too

I'm not.

But I still try to live my life as if I'll have to answer for my actions at the end.

I do, anyway - to me. And I'm a pretty harsh judge when it comes to me.

I am not. Was raised R.C.
Since 4th grade, while having religion shoved down my throat,
the entire concept never made any sense to me.
' God sent his son to save us...'

Well, who condemned us to begin with?
Laughing at the bilble thumppers--"An eye for an eye" v.
"Turn the other cheek." I guess the Big G changed "his" mind.

"God ALWAYS loves you," I believe that 100%...'But if you piss "Him" off, you're going to hell.' Nah, ain't buying that one. I believe God to so devine (read: cool) that we can't do anything to really piss "It" off. Yes, I said "It." Oh, Big G's a male? Why would It be a male, and with whom would It have sex with? Sure, I believe there's a masculine side of God and there's a feminine side to It. Can't buy the "guy in the sky" watching you 24/7 just to say, "Now you've done, you're going to hell."
Not something "sitting up there," but something inside all of us and all around us, always loving.

See:Metaphysics--I always thought I was the only one who thought that way. Then my personal spiritual process took me to like minded people...I'm in a nice place. I finally found that loving, caring God that "they" preach about. Mine doesn't say "but," as in, "I love you BUT if you do that, you're out of here." "You can have sex BUT only in marriage." Gee, who married Adam & Eve, and who were the two witnesses?
How about, "I gave you Free Will, BUT you're not allowed to use it." Let's not forget, "I wrote everything down in this book, BUT you're too dumb to understand it so get someone else to explain it to you."

I am a Christian. I try to follow the examples my parents taught my brother and I. Do the Right thing, treat others as you would like to be treated. Respect for living things. Reach out to lonely people. Give of your time and money when possible. Live a Good life and my mom also used to tell me "To Thine own self be true" I never understood what that meant until I got older. Offer a smile whenever you can.

My values too, bankguy - we don't have to be religious for that, but if you are, be sure to enjoy it.

That is a common misunderstood concept. It was satins deception that got us here in the first place. God was willing to give us a hand by sending his son to forgive our sins. Keep in mind that there is a lot of faith involved once you get past the holy trinity. God the father, God the son, and the Holy Spirit. I think it is worth getting past that. Life seems to be easier.

I will admit though that I became a Christian out of fear of what will happen to me after I died. Seizing to exist scared me. But my parents never told me I was going to hell if I did not become a Christian. Most of my bad experiences happened when I turned away from God.

I admit reading the bible is difficult but after a while you soon see it better after as they say "life happens." Your life is like a decoder. Another way to read the bible is to look at it the way it was written. Hint life is a riddle.

There's quite a bit involved even before you make it that far!


A sensible enough reason - it's the hardest part of being an atheist and rather attached to existence. It's why I don't seek to undo people's religious faith provided it does no harm to them or others: it can be a comfort, and sometimes people need that.

Let me guess becoming a Christian? I know the commitment can be hard. To many being an non-believer can be more comfortable than committing to something that could be made up. You don't know whether or not giving up your daily habits and or needs will bring you anything at all. You need a real sign to show up in life to prove that it is real. Not just a heartfelt gesture from a friend but something that says yes I am real.

Me? No, there's no danger of that, I accept the nothingness at the end as the price (a heavy one, admittedly) of freedom of thought & ethical judgment. I wouldn't want it any other way.

Perhaps, to people who can't find a way in their own values. It's not comfortable for me, but I find it more stimulating intellectually and morally.

I have a very deep belief in God. I talk to God every day and I have no doubt in my mind that God is there and exists. Always have felt that way.

But I don't go to church and haven't for years. Why? Maybe because I had some of the same questions that Jim had and saw the same inconsistencies as well. I had questions as a child that were never answered to my satisfaction. Let me clarify that I was raised very religiously. There are still aspects I very much appreciate-- the community of people I went to church and bible study with, I loved the praise and worship songs, I loved how people helped each other out.

But it never made sense to me that someone could go to hell if they didn't behave in certain way-- or if they didn't accept Jesus as their saviour. It didn't make sense to me that a God who I was told loved us more than anything, unconditionally, could all of sudden become bi-polar and send someone to hell for ETERNITY. I was terrified about what I was told hell was!

And then I wondered about the truly good people, who were kind to others, volunteered their time and money, and lived their lives in a caring an thoughtful way-- yet were not christians. Why should they go to hell? Why should they be punished eternally and someone else who wasn't as kind and good got to loll around in heaven? Or what about people who had never heard about God and Jesus? Would they go to hell as well- or do they get a free pass because they were ignorant? Was God really that spiteful and petty, or are those attributes that WE placed on God in order to control people?

I think the christian view of God limits who God is. And I don't think God can be limited. I think God is much bigger then what we think, and that we can't place these petty, limiting aspects on God-- because I just don't think thats who God is.

I also think that there is more then one path to get to God. There has to be-- because there are about 200 different versions of christianity and each one claims to be the only way-- so which one is right? Also, there are countless other religions-- some that date farther back-- and I just can't believe that all those people automatically go to hell either.

Christianity is not a bad thing- I'm not saying that at all. I think it can provide a very stablizing value system and can lead people to a belief in God. There is much that I do appreciate about the bible and many values that I think are relevent to today. But I also think people need to remember that a lot has changed since the bible was written and that society was much different then too.

I sure wouldn't have wanted to live as a woman during those times. Women were really nothing more then property and some favored men in the bible had more then one wife or concubine/s. Not so acceptable now is it?

I'm glad that Christinaity has moved beyond those limited ways of thinking. Now if only Islam could do that as well- then maybe their women wouldn't be treated like livestock.

Dragonsex said: To many being an non-believer can be more comfortable than committing to something that could be made up.

My response: I think to many, accepting something without question is the easy way out. To accept a belief system because you are told to without thinking it through-- is easier then figuring out what you believe yourself. In situations like that-- I think its more comfortable to just accept what you were raised as-- and to accept what your parents believe. I think its much more uncomfortable to forge out on your own and decide what you really believe deep down. But fear about what can happen is so ingrained , that is hard to ever move on to decide what our values and beliefs are without parental or church influence. And that goes for ALL religions-- not just christianity.

"God is the atheism of the atheist" - Gandhi

Whoever is or isn't a Christian here is the good news! All God wants from you is for you to believe.Nothing to do with how good you are or bad you are.
All he wants you to believe is that you know in your life that you have lied even one time and that you recognize that you have failed God and you have made mistakes in you life.

Here is what you are to believe.. Believe that Jesus died because you messed up.God punished him with his death.He died and took the blame for your mess ups.
If you believe that Jesus died and took the blame for you and really died.I mean dead.Dead like for real.Then afterwards came back to life.And you believe that he is God,then you are and will always be Gods son.
IF YOU BELIEVE THIS THEN YOU GO TO HEAVEN AND LIVE FOREVER.
No matter how bad you are and will be bad has nothing to do with it.
In the bible He says that you can call him *dad* He really loves you like a dad because He is your dad if you believe what I have just told you.If you have any questions,you can PM me.
*GOD WANTS YOU JUST TO BELIEVE HIM and NOTHING MORE*

And once again-- very good people who don't believe- automatically go to hell right? Forever and ever-- even though they were good people.

just doesn't fly with me-- sorry.

FF,
Once again, you prove what a gifted writter you are.
I am in awe of your command of presenting your viewpoint, which is only superceded by your intelligence.
My sincere respect to you,
Jim

When Jesus was asked what some one must do to go to heaven and was address by the person as just a "good" teacher Jesus looked at him and said,"Why do you call good? There is only One that is good and that is God."
The only way that someone can be considered good to God is to someone to be imputed righteousness and non else will do.
Firefly,there are tons of people that behave much better than I do and are not Christians.Does that make them good? No.Does that make me bad as compared to them.No.
What makes me good is that I believe that Jesus took the blame for all my mistakes and made me look "good" to Him.
It doesn't sound fair but if someone was trying to get into a concert by how they behaved instead of a ticket,who would get into the concert first?
God also said that you shouldn't say who will and won't go to heaven.That's His job.We never know who believe what in the hearts of men.
God wants the belief in Jesus to be from the heart.
I am only telling you what is written in the bible so take all of your questions to Him.And if we don't believe what God says in the bible than we have nothing to go by except to make our own belief system on how to get to heaven.All that we need to know about what God says is in the bible.

So you're saying there is no such thing as a good non-Christian? And that all Christians, and only Christians, are merely by their Christian faith good, regardless of their deeds?

It seems an extreme view which undervalues humanity, and mercifully a minority one.

Dude you nailed it. This is the core of my belief anyway. At my graduation I remember them talking about the differences in teachers and really God is not going to send us to hell just because we are bad or good. He sends us to hell because of the fact that we deny the fact that we sinned. That is only part of it anyway.

I think though the major part is to realize we are forgiven if we are willing to give our life to god. We may sin but god forgives us of our sin. There is no perfect Christian as penis b. little has said.

very most excellent post firefly.

to the christians in the group, which bible do you believe in? what about the inconsistencies from book to book, especially in the new testament? what about the gospels that are left out, like those found in the greek orthodox bible? they were written by contemporaries of mathew mark luke john etc, but some council said they should be left out. what about the stuff that is not accepted now, like slavery, women as chattel, or good stuff like exodus 34:26 ....You shall not boil a kid in its mother’s milk. that is part of the commandments for crying out loud. And of course all the specific condemnations of homosexuals. gay people do not choose, god made them that way. they are god's children like the rest of us, and i honestly do not want to belong to a club that picks out a certain group and condemns them.

how can you base all of your beliefs on a such a pick and choose document?

i believe in god. i do not believe in the politics and exclusiveness of most organized religions. i can believe that all have some validity, but not that one has the exclusive ear of god. i think maybe he/she/it set the whole thing up to cover the bases. worship me you feckless humans, i will provide countless, changing outlets to do so. see me in the agonized death of my prophet jesus, or in the beauty of a sunrise. i will provide you books to guide you in principal, but also give you free will and a powerful brain to think and decide.

God has secrets he hasn't let us in on yet. I believe it is the hubris of man to believe we know 'the one way', and all others are wrong and go to hell or where ever the 'bad' people go.