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#10200 - 07/07/09 01:05 AM I have been masturbating frequently
davidjohnson Offline
stranger

Registered: 06/29/09
Posts: 3
Please help! I’m 28 years old and have been masturbating frequently for as long as I remember (13 years),on average I'm guessing at least twice a day sometimes less or more. The problem I am facing over the past (8) years or so it has been very difficult to achieve an erection.I've had weak/soft erections on a regular basis, while mastrubating.I am a Virgin. I am worrying about my post marriage sexual relationship because of this erectile dysfunction.

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#10201 - 07/07/09 02:51 AM Re: I have been masturbating frequently [Re: davidjohnson]
mugwump1 Offline
addict

Registered: 06/29/09
Posts: 501
Loc: UK
Well first, don't panic, I very much doubt that you've suffered any permanent harm. Masturbation's physically harmless to the tissues, but it could be that with such frequency over a long period your body's just becoming less aroused by it. Maybe you need to cut down on it (perhaps make it a twice-weekly treat?) until your potency's restored. When it comes to a partner, all those jaded arousal centres should kick in afresh, so I think you'll be ok.
_________________________
5.75" of plenty beyond measure.

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#10203 - 07/07/09 03:00 AM Re: I have been masturbating frequently [Re: davidjohnson]
Grifter Offline
journeyman

Registered: 01/21/09
Posts: 54
I'm 22, and I've had weak/soft erections on a regular basis for 2 years (and I also started masturbating at about the same age--14). Sounds like we have the same problem.

My erectile dysfunction was diagnosed as a venous leak, although that's not a certain diagnosis because I haven't undergone tests like a penile doppler ultrasound or a corpus cavernosogram to confirm it. But it's pretty clear that my ED is of organic, rather than psychological, origin, because I no longer have nocturnal erections and my morning erections, when present, are also weak/soft. I also no longer have any spontaneous erections, and mental stimulation can rarely induce an erection--I almost always require physical stimulation, too.

Your ED could be related to a variety of factors. It may be due to smoking, diabetes, high cholesterol, low testosterone, high prolactin levels, or a number of other reasons--I can't say, because I don't know your medical history. But since you're affected at such a young age, like me, it may well be a venous leak. In layman's terms, this means that, when the blood flows into your penis to induce an erection, there's nothing to stop it from flowing back out. Hence, a soft/weak erection. Many things can cause a venous leak--I'm guessing an injury while playing soccer caused mine.

I don't know what country you're from, but I haven't had much luck with the American health care system. I visited a urologist, who promptly prescribed me Viagra and ushered me out of his office. It didn't work at all (I also tried Levitra and Cialis). Then he recommended I try a penis pump. I did a test and it yielded an embarrassingly poor erection--even worse than I'd get through masturbation. Beyond that, I don't think he has any solution for me.

American physicians are notoriously dogmatic, and the urologists are no different. A 1996 study in the Journal of Urology concluded that performing venous surgery on the penis is useless, almost without exception, because the surgery's effects tend to wear off after a couple of years and ED recurs. Thus, if American urologists are going to perform surgery for ED, it's most likely to shove an inflatable silicon rod in your cock. But f*ck that noise; I'm not going down that route. Ever.

But fear not! Not all hope is lost. In fact, I'm pinning my hopes on one doctor, the only doctor in the world who advocates penile venous surgery and who apparently has fantastic success rates. His name is Geng-Long Hsu. You can read about him in a New York Times best-seller by Mary Roach. It's titled Bonk: The Curious Coupling of Science and Sex. Luckily, you can view the relevant chapter for free on Google Books here.

One excerpt from the book reads as follows:

Quote:
Why would Dr. Hsu be able to cure so many men, when other competent urologists who undertake the procedure have seen, for the most part, only short-term benefits for their patients? "I can't for the life of me answer that question," says Gerry Brock. "I've seen Geng's surgery, and he does a good job. He's an honest guy, a great guy. But I have a hard time understanding, from a physiologic basis, how his results can be so distinctly different from those of others." One possibility is that Taiwanese patients are more polite--or more timid--than Western patients. Perhaps Dr. Hsu's patients are hesitant to report that the surgery's effects are fading.

Then again, the possibility exists that no one who does this technique is as good at it as Dr. Hsu. Few urologists seem as lovingly immersed in the anatomy of the penis as Geng-Long Hsu. He publishes papers on the tunica, the deep dorsal vein, the distal ligament. He has a standing order for "leftovers" at the anatomy department of Taiwan Adventist Hospital: "Please give all the penises to me."


The man is no slouch. He has been published over 100 times in different respected medical journals, including the Journal of Urology and the Journal of Andrology. One article of note: The Progression of the Penile Vein: Could it be Recurrent?

You can view his homepage here: http://www.glhsu.org/, and you can view more about venous stripping surgery (and even watch videos of Dr. Hsu performing it) here.

Here's my advice: Go see a local endocrinologist, not a urologist. They'll take different blood samples and determine if it's something OTHER than a venous leak. If nothing else is wrong with you, visit a radiologist and get a corpus cavernosogram, which will allow you to confirm whether it's a venous leak. If it is a venous leak, my only recommendation after all my research would be Dr. Hsu, but be prepared to spend some money. A cheap flight to Taiwan booked a month in advance will probably run about $1,000, and venous stripping surgery is $10,000. Oh, and Dr. Hsu now practices at China Medical University Hospital, which is in Taichung, Taiwan.

I'm going to try to get the surgery done within the next 2 months--it's a matter of coming up with the money.

Originally Posted By: mugwump1
Well first, don't panic, I very much doubt that you've suffered any permanent harm. Masturbation's physically harmless to the tissues, but it could be that with such frequency over a long period your body's just becoming less aroused by it. Maybe you need to cut down on it (perhaps make it a twice-weekly treat?) until your potency's restored. When it comes to a partner, all those jaded arousal centres should kick in afresh, so I think you'll be ok.


If it's a venous leak, it is permanent. Something's definitely wrong if he has had soft erections for 8 years.

I, too, hoped that a partner would change everything. Then, at 21, I lost my virginity but it changed nothing. Oh, I can get it up enough for penetrative sex, but often just barely.

For older men, ED is a difficult and extremely embarrassing issue. I invite everyone to think about having ED at age 20.


Edited by Grifter (07/07/09 03:07 AM)

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#10204 - 07/07/09 04:04 AM Re: I have been masturbating frequently [Re: Grifter]
jiji Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 04/10/09
Posts: 330
Grifter, as someone just a little older than you, the thought of suffering ED has never even crept into my mind. But your experience and davidjohnson's stand as a stark reminder that even we younger guys aren't immune to this humiliating disorder.

That was a very well-written and informative post. If I didn't know any better, I'd think you were a physician (I only assume you aren't since you said you're 22. Maybe you're in med school? Or just very well read on the subject?)

I can't even begin to imagine what it must be like to have ED at your age. I sure hope Dr. Hsu can help you. You'll have to let us know how it goes. I'll be praying for you.
_________________________
Some years pass in a day
Some things change and some things fade
Some days seem like there's nothing new
You have me and I have you

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#10205 - 07/07/09 04:47 AM Re: I have been masturbating frequently [Re: jiji]
Grifter Offline
journeyman

Registered: 01/21/09
Posts: 54
Thanks for your kind support, jiji.

I'm no med student, but unfortunately I'm better-read on the subject than many urologists even (mine had never heard of the reputable Geng-Long Hsu). I'll be sure to keep you updated. I've only got half the money I need for the surgery, so I'm considering taking out a loan to finance the rest. It's unfortunate timing since I need to start paying back my federal educational loans very soon, but for me the issue can't really wait any longer, even if my girlfriend claims to be sexually satisfied.

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#10208 - 07/07/09 05:49 AM Re: I have been masturbating frequently [Re: Grifter]
mugwump1 Offline
addict

Registered: 06/29/09
Posts: 501
Loc: UK
Originally Posted By: Grifter
If it's a venous leak, it is permanent. Something's definitely wrong if he has had soft erections for 8 years.

Thanks for all the info, and sorry to hear about your condition, Grifter - I wanted the OPer to try alternatives before resorting to a healthcare system which, as you've found, can be cruelly prohibitive in cost. I agree 8 years is an awfully long time for a "jaded" erectile response, but it seemed worth eliminating the alternatives before facing formal treatment. I hope you manage to get the funds to pay for your procedure: it's a terrible situation for people to be forced into.
_________________________
5.75" of plenty beyond measure.

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#11031 - 07/16/09 09:09 AM Re: I have been masturbating frequently [Re: jiji]
Lou Offline
stranger

Registered: 07/16/09
Posts: 8
Loc: armenia
Nice work Grifter you have made a nice research!It is true that Dr.Hsu is the only one in the world who does the venous surgery so well and complete.He had studied penile anatomy in
fresh human cadavers and is able to ligate more veins than any other surgeon.I am an ED patientdue to venous leak for 2 years and i am 24 years old.you can imagine how hard it is..
Last summer i had a venous ligation surgery in Europe by a Europian surgeon and the result was worst than before..fuck him!Every day i was in the internet searcing and searching and thats how i find dr.Hsu.i mailed him and we were having correspondences and i decided to go there last month.we did to me the venous surgery which lasted 6 hours.it was not a pleasure feeling since local anestesia is not very strong.Now i am waiting for the results... since time is needed because tissue has to be recovered.If you have questions just ask.I feel glad to help other people with the same problem

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#11032 - 07/16/09 09:27 AM Re: I have been masturbating frequently [Re: Lou]
mugwump1 Offline
addict

Registered: 06/29/09
Posts: 501
Loc: UK
Good luck, Lou - sorry to hear about our European partners botching it. Hope all goes well from now on.
_________________________
5.75" of plenty beyond measure.

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#11033 - 07/16/09 09:55 AM Re: I have been masturbating frequently [Re: mugwump1]
Lou Offline
stranger

Registered: 07/16/09
Posts: 8
Loc: armenia
thank you very much mugwump1.I hope so too..

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#13254 - 08/29/09 05:36 AM Re: I have been masturbating frequently [Re: Lou]
softglans Offline
newbie

Registered: 08/29/09
Posts: 29
Hi!
I'm 31 and have a similar condition: Post traumatic soft glans, from jelqing exercise, with decreased erection quality, poor morning erections, no spontaneous erections etc. It's clearly a leak from the glans into the deep dorsal vein (DDV), as when pushing on top of the penis when erect, the glans will keep close to normal pressure. I have not had any image study. I believe the general poor erection quality is a secondary effect.

I have scheduled an operation in Europe, Hamburg, with a clearly respectable specialist Prof.Dr.Harmut Porst, www.porst-hamburg.de (Also Chairman of the Standards Committee for Sexual Medicine of the International Society for Sexual Medicine). The operation will be an incision with ligation and 2cm resection of the DDV and SDV (superficial dorsal vein). Given a 30% long term success rate. Which is not too promising.

However, with researching on Dr.Geng-Long Hsu, I must admit his dedication, focus and experience with venous stripping, seems second to none, as far as the internet research seems to indicate. I'm considering now to plan an operation with Dr.Hsu instead, with hopes of having higher chance of good long term results.

As far as I know, this is the only forum thread (anywhere) discussing Dr.Geng-Long Hsu's methods (?). So I'm sharing my situation here and will keep it updated, for the benefit of all of us with similar problems.

Girther; wish you the very best for your operation. And Lou; Hope you are recovering well. It would be very interesting to hear more on how you are progressing after surgery.


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#13830 - 09/13/09 07:48 AM Re: I have been masturbating frequently [Re: softglans]
Lou Offline
stranger

Registered: 07/16/09
Posts: 8
Loc: armenia
HELLO TO EVERYONE

SOFTGLANS:MY CONDITION IS NOT AS GOOD AS I EXPECTED.THERE ARE 3 MONTHS NOW AFTER THE SURGERY.MY ERECTIONS ARE SOMEHOW BETTER BUT
STILL FAR FROM NOT HAVING ERECTILE DYSFUNCTION.I AM NOT VERY OPTIMISTIC..BUT AS I SAID I AM SOMEHOW BETTER.NOW SOMETIMES ONE PILL 100 VIAGRA CAN HELP.BEFORE I WAS USING THE TRIMIX.
HOWEVER I BELIEVE THAT YOUR DECISION TO HAVE AN OPERATION WITH DR.HSU IS THE RIGHT BECAUSE THAT WAY YOU WILL HAVE SERIOUS CHANCES TO BE CURED.I HAVE HAD A SURGERY IN EUROPE BEFORE AND THE JOB THAT DR.HSU DID IS BY FAR MORE COMPLICATED AND SCIENTIFIC.HE STRIPS THE VEINS AND HE LIGATES THE SMALLER ONES.BUT BE AWARE THAT THE SPONGY VEIN WHICH IS IN THE CORPUS SPONGIOSUM CAN NO BE STRIPPED OR LIGATED.THEREFORE A POSSIBLE LEAK FROM THERE MIGHT BE THE MAIN REASON OF A NOT GOOD POSTOPERATIVE RESULT.DR.HSU SAYS THAT BECAUSE HE LIGATES THE CIRCUMFLEX VEINS THERE WILL BE NO COMMUNICATION BETWEEN THE CORPORA CAVERNOSA AND THE CORPUS SPONGIOSUM BUT AS FAR AS I KNOW
THE CORPUS SPONGIOSUM COMMUNICATES WITH THE GLANS.SO IF OUR LEAK IS IN THE GLANS AND THE SPONGY VEIN CAN NOT BE TOUCHED MAYBE AFTER YOU MIGHT HAVE SOME LEAK FROM THERE.
IN CONCLUSION THIS IS THE BEST NON PROSTHETIC SURGERY FOR ERECTILE DYSFUNCTION CAUSED BE LEAK.THIS IS THE BEST LAST STEP BEFORE THE IMLANT.IF YOU DO IT BE READY TO HAVE A LOT OF PAIN DURING THE SURGERY.
BOTTOM LINE I DONT KNOW WHAT IS THE BEST DECISION.FROM THE ONE HAND YOU CAN HAVE PENILE PROSTHESIS WHICH IS SURE SOLUTION BUT NOT NATURAL AND FROM THE OTHER HAND VENOUS STRIPPING IS NOT SURE AND TIME IS NEEDED AND IF THE TIME PASSES AND YOU ARE NOT OK
THERE ARE SOME HOPES FROM THE LAST STUDIES ON GENE THERAPY FOR ERECTILE DYSFUNCTION.SEARCH ABOUT H MAXI-K ON THE INTERNET..

I HOPE I HELPED.ASK ME IF YOU WANT ANYTHING.I FEEL GLAD TO HELP.THIS IS A MAJOR PROBLEM

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#13852 - 09/14/09 02:25 PM Re: I have been masturbating frequently [Re: Lou]
Firefly Offline
Esteemed Member

Registered: 09/02/08
Posts: 4100
Loc: United States
Lou-- I appreciate your info here, but I am asking you to please not post in all capital letters. On a forum-- all caps is like shouting at everyone.
_________________________
Decide. Commit. Succeed.

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#13907 - 09/15/09 07:47 PM Re: I have been masturbating frequently [Re: Firefly]
gfs Offline
stranger

Registered: 09/15/09
Posts: 3
Hi, Im 21, I´ve noticed a gradual decrease of my potency ever since the onset of puberty(12). Today it has reached the point where I can merely attain a breif (30s),soft erection by manual stimulation together with withholding ejaculation. Nowdays I usually wake up with a nearly flaccid. I have tried Cialis with disappointing results (2 min soft erections, like those I had a few years ago).
I strongly suspect that the cause is a congenital venous leak, and that the gradual decrease in potency can be directly attributed to the insufficent/absent nocturnal erections. I believe those play a vital role in mainting the intracavernosal tissue in good shape.
Though I sadly realize Im probably already sc;;^^d up beyond repair. I still seriously consider to give this Dr, Hsu i try. I feel there is little to lose.
After extensive research of the "robodick" alternative I have reached the conclusion; NO ^^^^^ WAY. I rather die virgin than submit myself to that. At my age I can look forward to countless revisions with the inevitable complications (severe shortening, nerve damage, erosion, fibrosis, scaring, penile wall weakening, infections etc, etc). The fact that I´m very physically active will also increase the risk of early malfunction.
If the vein stripping together with some pills and a constriction ring will produce I erection sufficent for intercourse I'd be happy.

Lou, any further details regarding the procedure, will be most welcomed. How much did you pay? Have you suffered any complications (like shortening, loss of sense, curving etc.)? Was everything done in the same day (the cavernosography/operation)?
According to GL-Hsu own webpage it can take up to 2 years until full results are attained, so hopefully you might experience some further improvement.
As for the MAXI-K gene, do anyone no how it will work more specifically? And when it will be available? I got the impression it´s will work similar to Viagra but for 6 months instead of 6 hours.

At the moment Im beeing scheduled for a cavernosometry to confirm the leak. To be continued...

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#14590 - 10/01/09 04:25 AM Re: I have been masturbating frequently [Re: gfs]
softglans Offline
newbie

Registered: 08/29/09
Posts: 29
LOU:
Thanks for the advice! I'm real sorry to hear that you did not have a satisfactory result. I don't know what else to say, as I couldn't see you describe your condition or how it developed.. What does Dr.Hsu say about your current condition?

The doctor in Germany was not willing to answer my detailed questions about the procedure, said he had no time for long questions and that we should discuss it when I came there for surgery. Yea right, that's enough to hear for me. So I dumped him, and now I'm going to Taipei next week, to have the venous stripping with Dr.Hsu. (Cost 10,000$)

I'm quite optimistic for my condition. As the leak I have is clearly in the deep dorsal vein, which is readily accessible with this method.

gfs:
I will update about my surgery and recovery, so you can get some insight. I would advice that you demand to get the full resolution images from the cavernosometry. You can then send them to Dr.Hsu afterwards, and he may be able to give you a second opinion, if there is any indication on those images.


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#14611 - 10/01/09 12:14 PM Re: I have been masturbating frequently [Re: softglans]
gfs Offline
stranger

Registered: 09/15/09
Posts: 3
Softglans,
I have decided there's is no time to lose (have to wait 2 months for cavernosometry). I have had contact with Hsu, hopefully I will recieve time within next two weeks.

My symptoms started out like yours, but I can't recall ever experiencing any notable trauma. My glans always remains soft, even though I briefly can attain decent overall rigity (with the help of pills). Since things have become much, much worse over the years, I strongly suspects that I've suffered some tissue degeneration from insufficent nocturnal erections.
Anyway, I reckon this surgery is my only hope for remedy, so I'm more than willing to investigate it closely.

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#14626 - 10/01/09 03:59 PM Re: I have been masturbating frequently [Re: gfs]
gfs Offline
stranger

Registered: 09/15/09
Posts: 3
Ok. The flight is booked (7-14 oct). The eventual operation is scheduled for 10 october.





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#14630 - 10/01/09 05:15 PM Re: I have been masturbating frequently [Re: gfs]
softglans Offline
newbie

Registered: 08/29/09
Posts: 29
gfs:
I'm sure you will have at least the best possibilities with Dr.Hsu. I can not see any person on this planet more dedicated to this than him.

I have recently found an interesting piece of writing about Dr.Hsu, in a book that is available for "look inside" on amazon. Just search for "long hsu" and you will find the section, from page 130-143. http://www.amazon.com/Bonk-Curious-Coupling-Science-Sex/dp/0393064646

I will be in Taipei from 4th-12th Oct, with operation on the 6th. So we can meet up. I will send you PM with contact info etc.

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#14988 - 10/09/09 08:02 PM Re: I have been masturbating frequently [Re: softglans]
Lou Offline
stranger

Registered: 07/16/09
Posts: 8
Loc: armenia
Hello!I see guys(softglans,gfs) that you decided to go and probably you are already there.i hope that you didn't have much pain during the surgery as i did.
i remember that dr.Hsu was very kind and he always wanted to take me out for eating and sightseeing.
I am waiting for you to tell me about Dr.Hsu and your condition.
gfs:no length loss,curving or loss of sensation will happend to you.don't worry for that,the importand issue is venous leak and how you will be after surgery.my condition is little better but not ok.I will have a cavernosography next week with my urologist

waiting for your news

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#15283 - 10/18/09 06:03 PM Re: I have been masturbating frequently [Re: softglans]
Lou Offline
stranger

Registered: 07/16/09
Posts: 8
Loc: armenia
Are you both ok?I am curious about your surgery and condition..

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#15310 - 10/19/09 04:18 AM Re: I have been masturbating frequently [Re: Lou]
softglans Offline
newbie

Registered: 08/29/09
Posts: 29
Hi Lou!
hehe.. pain, o yes I think I had your same experience. The operation was planned for about 3-4 hour, but ended up lasting 6h, partly due to some complex vein system. So the anesthesia did not last for that long, so the last 1.5 hour I was literally shaking from pain. In the end he had to set a new shot, to finish.

Now I'm passed the most stingy pain, and each day feels a little better. And erections are very good. I guess perhaps my case was quite good, since my leak in my opinion was only from the glans.

I have one side effect though, and that is numbness of the skin, on the top of the penis shaft, starting at the end of the scar at the base, and all along, including the top side of the glans. About 15mm wide along this length. Doctor is not sure what have caused this, or if it will persist or sensation return. So this was disappointing, but for the moment I don't feel it will make a big impact. But will know more about that later after healing is more complete.

Anyway, I'm very positive and in good mood after the surgery which in any other surgeons hand would bring disaster, I'm sure.

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#15311 - 10/19/09 11:16 AM Re: I have been masturbating frequently [Re: softglans]
Grifter Offline
journeyman

Registered: 01/21/09
Posts: 54
Thank you very much for your update, softglans. For many reasons it is quite difficult to find actual testimonials, but your experience, one negative side effect notwithstanding, does sound very promising. From what it sounds, the admittedly expensive operation is worth it for men in our position. I hope I soon have the money saved to go under the knife myself--right now I'm living in South Korea, so luckily a flight to Taiwan won't be very expensive. It may be a few months, but when I'm finished I'll post my results here too.

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#15325 - 10/19/09 03:01 PM Re: I have been masturbating frequently [Re: Grifter]
softglans Offline
newbie

Registered: 08/29/09
Posts: 29
Grifter,
You may just relax as it will be beneficial to you to wait a few months now. The reason is that Dr.Hsu is establishing his private clinic with all the necessary equipment for complete diagnosis and surgery. He expected within the end of the year to have it ready. At the moment he does not always have available his desired/best staff, which added an unnecessary element of risk for my surgery. Hence it should be a better environment for the surgery after this move.

I'm myself a bit careful to completely trust the track record of success. Not that I mean it's dishonest in any way, but there may be interpretations such as "satisfied patient", which may possibly not mean a 100% erection quality. Also for patients with history of ED for 5-10 years, are they able to know what 100% potency is like, or fully satisfied with less? For patients with severe conditions however, this is not so important. But for me who had perhaps a 75% condition, any side effect becomes quite critical, as you are very determined to regain 100% erection quality, but on the flip-side you also have a lot to lose.

Still, I believe if your condition is quite weak, the chances that you will see significant improvements should be rather good. And I will never let any other surgeon operate on my penis, as long as he is practicing.

Another thing that you may encounter is that there is a small language barrier, so be sure that questions you have are answered fully, or else it's always a chance that it was not understood completely. Specially if you have particular concerns about your own condition that you think needs special attention.

One thing you should be aware of is that he will perform a circumcision as part of the surgery. I requested not to do that, and he preserved most of my prepuce. However this apparently made the operation quite complicated, a consequence that was not communicated beforehand. I guess this is a little bit of the cultural&language differences, that it's not so easy to have the clear technical discussions as you are used to with a European doctor. So you need to pay attention to your own concerns so there are no misunderstandings. But for the circumcision that is something you can think through, so it does not come as a surprise.

On the personal side, Dr.Hsu is a very warm and caring person, and has a very high conscience and feeling of responsibility for his patients. So you will feel very welcome in his presence.


We should also take notice though, that we have here in this short thread already "Lou", who unfortunately has an unsatisfactory result. I see Lou, that you were a "salvaging case", since you had a previous surgery, something that Dr.Hsu says is quite complicated. I don't know if he has given any more reason or advice on your current condition, Lou? Were there veins he was not able to access for some reason? Are you a candidate for a 2nd surgery? If you have more info it would be interesting to hear about.


Edited by softglans (10/19/09 03:32 PM)

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#15346 - 10/19/09 11:01 PM Re: I have been masturbating frequently [Re: softglans]
Big Al Offline
Sponsor
enthusiast

Registered: 07/16/08
Posts: 293
Have any of you gentlemen tried doing kegels or other stamina exercises to attempt to plug up your venous leaks?

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#15353 - 10/20/09 09:47 AM Re: I have been masturbating frequently [Re: softglans]
Lou Offline
stranger

Registered: 07/16/09
Posts: 8
Loc: armenia
Softglans:I am happy to hear that you are very optimistic and your erections are good.I am sorry to hear that you had a lot of pain just like me..you know my surgery was 6.5 hours and we did local anestetic shoots several times which was also painful.

It is an uncommon side effect which you expirience.i dont think that there is a damage on the nerves..i believe that it will be alright during healing.

tell me about Hsu, he is very polite and kind isn't he?Have you meet Boss his friend?

i hope you will be ok

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#15354 - 10/20/09 10:07 AM Re: I have been masturbating frequently [Re: softglans]
Lou Offline
stranger

Registered: 07/16/09
Posts: 8
Loc: armenia
Sorry i missed to read your final letter.You know softglans the only important vein which can not be ligated or stripped is the spongy vein in the corpus spongiosum because of the possible side effects.therefore IF after the surgery there are some very small persisting veins which communicate with the corpus spongiosum and IF you have leak from the corpus spongiosum then you will loose blood from the corpora cavernosa too.Thats what i believe is happening to me and my urologist will do to me a cavernosography to see what is happening.Dr.Hsu told me that more time is needed for recovery.So the time will show us..

Grifter:If you dont consider the implant as an option the only thing that is sure is that a surgery with Dr.Hsu is the best option.You are young like me and i know that you cant stay like this..good luck to yo either

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#15355 - 10/20/09 10:33 AM Re: I have been masturbating frequently [Re: softglans]
Grifter Offline
journeyman

Registered: 01/21/09
Posts: 54
Originally Posted By: softglans
Grifter,
You may just relax as it will be beneficial to you to wait a few months now. The reason is that Dr.Hsu is establishing his private clinic with all the necessary equipment for complete diagnosis and surgery. He expected within the end of the year to have it ready. At the moment he does not always have available his desired/best staff, which added an unnecessary element of risk for my surgery. Hence it should be a better environment for the surgery after this move.

I'm myself a bit careful to completely trust the track record of success. Not that I mean it's dishonest in any way, but there may be interpretations such as "satisfied patient", which may possibly not mean a 100% erection quality. Also for patients with history of ED for 5-10 years, are they able to know what 100% potency is like, or fully satisfied with less? For patients with severe conditions however, this is not so important. But for me who had perhaps a 75% condition, any side effect becomes quite critical, as you are very determined to regain 100% erection quality, but on the flip-side you also have a lot to lose.

Still, I believe if your condition is quite weak, the chances that you will see significant improvements should be rather good. And I will never let any other surgeon operate on my penis, as long as he is practicing.

Another thing that you may encounter is that there is a small language barrier, so be sure that questions you have are answered fully, or else it's always a chance that it was not understood completely. Specially if you have particular concerns about your own condition that you think needs special attention.



Thank you again for another great post. As for circumcision, that's not an issue because I was circumcised as an infant (pretty standard in the USA).

It's very difficult for me to quantify, in percentile or otherwise, my decrease in erection quality. Two years ago, I had what I understood to be normal erections--they were rock-hard. And although spontaneous erections seemed inconvenient at the time, I badly miss having them!

I'll just say that my penis isn't quite as large as it used to be when erected (I probably lost about a half to three-fourths of an inch in length). The glans doesn't seem to fill up with as much blood and my penis certainly isn't as rigid as it once was. I mean, I do get it up enough for sex. I can get it up enough to stand at its normal upward angle, but that's only if I'm exerting force to maintain my erection. I lose erections very quickly without direct stimulation, which also sucks. If I had to make a rough guess, I'd say that the actual rigidity is between 50% and 65% of what it used to be. But again, it's tough to say.

Big Al--thanks for the tip, but upon reading about those exercises I can't see that they would 'plug' any venous leaks.

And Lou--thanks for the well-wishes!


Edited by Grifter (10/20/09 10:34 AM)

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#15358 - 10/20/09 12:14 PM Re: I have been masturbating frequently [Re: Grifter]
Big Al Offline
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Originally Posted By: Grifter
Big Al--thanks for the tip, but upon reading about those exercises I can't see that they would 'plug' any venous leaks.


ED caused by weak valves, atherosclerosis, as well as other penile issues can usually be combatted by doing various stamina exercises. A lot of men have radically improved their erectile quality with them. It's certainly worth a try, considering the alternatives. You don't have to take my word for it though- do a thorough search on the net or visit your local library and educate yourself as much as you can on this issue.

To anyone else in a similar predicament: While there are a lot of helpful entities on this forum, no one here has the ability to medically assess what may be truly wrong with you. Before even thinking of doing anything radical you should get a thorough exam done- including a cavernosagram. If you visit a urologist and they won't help you, find one that will.

Surgery of any kind is usually not necessary except in the most extreme cases and should be considered a final alternative. Viagra, Cialis, etc. don't cure ED- they just mask the symptoms; and in cases of extreme venous leaks they won't be of much help.


Edited by Big Al (10/20/09 12:57 PM)

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#15361 - 10/20/09 02:13 PM Re: I have been masturbating frequently [Re: Big Al]
softglans Offline
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Registered: 08/29/09
Posts: 29
It's indeed true that pelvic exercises can help many with erectile dysfunction. This is also supported by a published study. The benefits of the pelvic floor exercises with respect to erection quality is increased blood inflow to the penis. Reduced arterial inflow is one of the main causes of erectile dysfunction, and is mostly seen in elder men. The other common cause of erectile dysfunction is venous leak, and is found in all age groups. The venous leak is technically a completely different condition, and requires a totally different treatment. For people with venous leaks, these exercises can not counteract the problem, because the arterial inflow is typically normal, and an increased inflow will lead to higher flow rate, but not an increase in the Pascal law pressure buildup which creates rigidity. The study supporting the pelvic floor exercises is done on men at average age of 59 years. Statistically the cause of erectile dysfunction at that age is typically reduced arterial inflow, and not venous leak. Of course, reduced arterial flow can exist also in younger patients, even though it's much less frequent. Obesity, diabetes, recreational drugs or medical drug side effects may contribute to this in all patients. However for younger healthy patients, venous leak is a frequent cause.

Testing of the arterial inflow was one of the tests performed along with cavernosography prior to my surgery. The doctor does not allow any venous ligation surgery on patients unless it's confirmed significant leaks along with healthy arterial inflow. Alternative type of surgery for patients without venous leaks, but with weak arterial inflow is vascular reconstructive surgery. However for these candidates, as suggested, the pelvic floor exercises should be performed as a first remedy, for at least 3-6 months, to see the results.

Still obviously, there are no negative side effects of these kegel exercises, so any person who has reduced erection quality should do them as part of their treatment, and indeed also anyone with a perfect erection also. Indeed my surgeon also recommend these exercises for keeping a healthy erection quality into the older age, and he performs them himself.

So, the kegels are beneficial as long as the venous occlusive systems are functional. But they have no ability to repair damage to these systems, unfortunately.

But for people who yet has not a confirmed diagnosis, you may just to start to kegel today.

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#15367 - 10/20/09 04:38 PM Re: I have been masturbating frequently [Re: softglans]
Big Al Offline
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There are eminent experts in the field of urology (e.g.- Dr. Tom Lue, a pioneer in the ED surgical field) that recommend against ED surgery (even the popular "Penile Revascularization Cure") due to the lack of permanency and because of its negative side effects.

Anyone suffering from ED should be wary of any entity that claims only surgery can cure a venous leak. One thing to consider is that the term "venous leak" is considered a blanket term used by many urologists when diagnosing ED. The internet is replete with men that have been diagnosed as having "venous leaks" that have gone on to treat them without surgery by using drugs (like "tri-mix"), devices, and/or by using exercises and supplementation.

Some of these gentlemen even fit the specific criteria of "true venous leak" due to deep dorsal vein valve issues [diagnosed by cavernosagrams] and were very dysfunctional in certain sexual positions while only less dysfunctional in others. Some of these men were able to regain some or most of their erectile functioning. How did this occur? One likely possibility is that there was some restoration of tone and strengthening of the venous walls. From that possibility alone it would make sense to perform these stamina exercises as they may be instrumental at preventing the degeneration of venal tonus. Use it or lose it applies to the vascular systems of the penis as well.

I have read about Dr. Hsu's work. His microsurgical procedures seem promising (and his novel approach not requiring a wide dissection for his stripping procedure is very impressive), but his group did state that a larger study would be required to assess the durability of his procedure. That would put it in the "experimental" category [if there have been any updates to this status please feel free to post it here]. This is a huge factor to consider since insurance companies usually don't go along with experimental procedures for non-life threatening treatments.

My intention in pointing all of this out is that I think it's a mistake to assume that ED surgery is a sure thing or the easiest way out. In addition to the outrageous out-of-pocket costs when compared with alternatives, the pain involved, the time for travel, recuperation, etc., there's still going to be the issue of viability.

Rather than promoting Dr. Hsu's procedure as an ED cure-all, it should be considered a last resort...

and in what appears to be cases of mild ED...

The suggestion of surgery for ED without exhausting all other options is irresponsible- especially when one isn't even sure of the cause!

On a brighter note, less invasive therapies like those involving VEGF look quite promising and will hopefully one day eliminate the need for extensive treatements or surgeries for ED.

Of course, the best medicine is preventative. Ensuring that your diet is in check, getting regular thorough check ups, exercising regularly (this includes sexual activity) will go a long way towards maintaining good sexual health.

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#15373 - 10/20/09 05:41 PM Re: I have been masturbating frequently [Re: Big Al]
softglans Offline
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Registered: 08/29/09
Posts: 29
Yes, these are all valid points, and for people with minor leaks I would not doubt that other methods may have some positive effect. It's also obvious that the surgery does not restore the natural design of the occlusive system, so theoretically there is potential for better methods, the question is do they currently exist with successful expectancy(?).

I think however that the few people on this thread are quite severe cases of venous leak, as I think most have been confirmed as such. It is not intended as a thread for general advice, but is merely a coincidental meeting point for a few people who after exhausting all available advice, found Dr.Hsu as the best hope at this point. It is also well understood that Dr.Hsu's methods are experimental, from the sole fact that other doctors do not perform similar surgery.

At the same time I know that any person with such a condition is very interested to learn about any possible cure, whatever it may be. As you mention men that has been treated for serious venous leaks by other methods, that is very interesting. But it's hardly enough information to take any action. If you have direct references to reports, articles or other hands-on testimonials, such info would be something we could look into and evaluate, and that would be very helpful and appreciated.. I'm sure you understand that we have to make actual decisions, and act on this type of information, with our future at stake, so any hands on data is very valuable, but also required. For myself, obviously I have already had surgery, but I'm still interested in this, so I don't mind to take this investigation further. As of course, the less invasive options must always be exhausted first.

However, the statement you made before;
ED caused by weak valves, atherosclerosis, as well as other penile issues can usually be combatted by doing various stamina exercises.
..this I believe unfortunately is far from truth. Even though methods may show some improvement, in some patient groups, it seems still a very difficult condition to cure into satisfactory erection quality. Very often the standard is set by "ability to perform intercourse" etc, so it's also a big difference from what is the goal of a man of age 70, vs people in their 20s and 30s.


Edited by softglans (10/20/09 06:03 PM)

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#15388 - 10/20/09 07:55 PM Re: I have been masturbating frequently [Re: softglans]
Big Al Offline
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Originally Posted By: softglans
Yes, these are all valid points, and for people with minor leaks I would not doubt that other methods may have some positive effect. It's also obvious that the surgery does not restore the natural design of the occlusive system, so theoretically there is potential for better methods, the question is do they currently exist with successful expectancy(?).


That depends on whose POV you're looking at it from. Some docs swear by their own procedures, while others are a bit more honest and assess the "success" of standard procedures (e.g. venous ligation) at 10-30% on average. "Success" is typically defined by being able to maintain a degree of potency sufficient for intercourse 2-5 years postsurgery. It certainly doesn't denote a full restoration of pre-ED function.

You have to remember that, beneficent appearances aside, most doctors are in business to make a profit. Unfortunately some do so at the expense of their patients' best interests.

If you ask a doctor whose specialty is expensive radical surgery what he thinks you should do, what do you think he's going to tell you? I sincerely doubt that he's going to tell you to try something that's free or low cost or that doesn't directly benefit him financially- especially when you're sitting in his office thousands of miles away from your own home (this is not directed towards any medical professional in particular).

Originally Posted By: softglans
I think however that the few people on this thread are quite severe cases of venous leak, as I think most have been confirmed as such. It is not intended as a thread for general advice, but is merely a coincidental meeting point for a few people


It's very coincidental indeed smile

I think it depends on how you define "severe". Most docs would not define an erection capable of successful penetration as "severely dysfunctional".

Originally Posted By: softglans
who after exhausting all available advice, found Dr.Hsu as the best hope at this point.


I would be interested in reading more about some of the methods tried before you gentlemen considered surgery.

Softglans, I noted in your particular case that [according to your post] you tried Cialis, visited another inept doctor, and then seemed to have made the jump to surgery (referred by your doc, of course).

What degree of erection were you able to obtain aided/unaided? Did you consider trying the vacuum/ring method? What about some of the newer drug combinations or even papaverine? Did you wait until you saw Dr. Hsu to get a cavernosagram done? Did you get a second opinion from an equally qualified doc?

It's surprising to see that you went from being 100% healthy to having severe ED from one particular incident. Did you experience any bruising, pain or swelling after your injury? Is it possible that you had some preexisting anomaly that may have caused your venous leak?

Originally Posted By: softglans
It is also well understood that Dr.Hsu's methods are experimental, from the sole fact that other doctors do not perform similar surgery.


There's that and the fact that even Dr. Hsu's group hasn't claimed any definite viability. Many of today's more established ED surgical procedures are considered "experimental" by insurance companies.

Originally Posted By: softglans
At the same time I know that any person with such a condition is very interested to learn about any possible cure, whatever it may be. As you mention men that has been treated for serious venous leaks by other methods, that is very interesting. But it's hardly enough information to take any action. If you have direct references to reports, articles or other hands-on testimonials, such info would be something we could look into and evaluate, and that would be very helpful and appreciated.. I'm sure you understand that we have to make actual decisions, and act on this type of information, with our future at stake, so any hands on data is very valuable, but also required. For myself, obviously I have already had surgery, but I'm still interested in this, so I don't mind to take this investigation further. As of course, the less invasive options must always be exhausted first.


There certainly is smile

One thing that must be noted is the difference between a "treatment" and a "cure". You should be wary of anyone that states that they can "cure" ED. ED is a condition that is often recurring in nature, so the proper terminology for anything but the implantation of a rod in the penis is a "treatment". Surgeries qualify as treatments since they don't often permanently cure the condition.

Besides the numerous helpful free male enhancement forums, I would suggest reading the more recent works of *Dr. Tom Lue, the book "Superpotency" by Dr. Danoff is an excellent read (if a bit dated), EDGuidance is a good place for a layperson to start, GoldJournal is an excellent source of heavy reading if you're into the latest research, and there are countless alternative medicine and health boards that have a wealth of unbiased information.

You'll find some of the most intriguing treatments being carried on by people that have become fed up with the inefficient and oftentimes abusive system of traditional Western Medicine. Keeping an open mind is a must when visiting these sites if you wish to learn from them.

*Dr. Lue's recent success with "tri-mix" should not be seen as a long term treatment since most such drug combinations usually fizzle out after the body becomes tolerant to them.

Originally Posted By: softglans
However, the statement you made before;
ED caused by weak valves, atherosclerosis, as well as other penile issues can usually be combatted by doing various stamina exercises.
..this I believe unfortunately is far from truth. Even though methods may show some improvement, in some patient groups, it seems still a very difficult condition to cure into satisfactory erection quality. Very often the standard is set by "ability to perform intercourse" etc, so it's also a big difference from what is the goal of a man of age 70, vs people in their 20s and 30s.


No offense, but I may have a bit of an advantage in this area as I have been helping men with their issues for over a decade now. It's been my experience that usually some improvement is noted in most men that give exercises and other non-invasive methods an honest try. We're not talking about some outdated kegel patient study here either- I'm referring to a more holistic approach towards trying to improve health using traditional as well as nontraditional approaches.

Exercises and certain supplements are free/low-cost respectively and a great many men notice results from them. Certainly one should logically start with the simplest methods first before moving on to more complex, expensive, painful, and invasive procedures.

I am not stating that the nonmedical methods these men use are cure-alls nor am I suggesting that a sick man in his 70's will be able to perform like a vigorous 20 year old. Also, some of these men often have to try more than one method, and it may take months or even years to see satisfactory results (although a good proportion of men do see measureable results within weeks, though these men are usually fairly healthy to begin with).

There are also going to be unfortunate cases that don't seem to respond to anything but the most aggressive methods.

On an end note, I don't understand why I'm occasionally met with hostility by certain entities when I recommend starting with the simplest of procedures first to see what the results are. One would think that I was attacking their livelihood wink The etiology of ED isn't totally understood even by the most seasoned of medical professionals. Sometimes you have to find the answers when others can't/won't.

When in doubt refer to Occam's Razor, which suggests that the simpler solution is usually the best one.

Hope this helps smile

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#15394 - 10/21/09 01:29 AM Re: I have been masturbating frequently [Re: Big Al]
softglans Offline
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Registered: 08/29/09
Posts: 29
I understand you have a strong view, but you fail to provide the back-up references, like "peer reviewed publications", that is needed to in any way confirm that your opinions are applicable for our conditions. There are endless of more shallow books about potency that are not applicable, or mostly written for the sake of profit. But if any book or source has some actual valued info, this info is available also in the form of medical publications/specific papers. Otherwise the information is not good enough to make decisions on.

It's a big difference of treating mild ED, or classic ED which is normally due to typical age or health issues, vs the type of ED we discuss in this thread. This is a distinction that may not be very obvious or easy to accept by others, but is very clear for one who has such a condition. It's long list of established reasons why people have ED, and much can be said and researched in general, but when you are an actual patient you find soon that you fit in a very narrow space with your condition, and your research has to become very specific, and so does the possible solutions. You will find that there is a ton of information, but only a few pieces are related to yourself.

Hence, my expression that this thread is for very specific conditions, and in no way any general advice.

I have no problem believing that "some" improvement can occur in "some" patients, however for people who are young and otherwise healthy, "some" improvement is ultimately not what they are looking for. I can speak for myself that the venous leak was so clear that I could simply push a finger on my DDV, and block the leak, so the mechanical indications were very obvious, and surgery highly justified. Allthough my erection quality may have been only reduced to 75%, my satisfaction with the sexual condition was maybe 20% only, and similarily also the impact on my overall sex life. I'm young and have not any desire to settle with significantly reduced sexual ability, if there are options to regain my potency fully, with minimal or acceptible risks.

I also do not have a positive impression of any surgery other than that of Dr.Hsu, which is one very special doctor. He has operated about 4000 patients under his own hand, for erectile dysfunction, and has an experience and dedication you will not find even a slight comparison to in any other doctor. His method can hence not be generalized in any way, since it's not being replicated yet. I know very well that many doctors may be after pure profit, but I can assure that when it's about your own penis, you become very sensitive about picking up such signals. Dr.Hsu clearly also has too many clients and too much to do. I also talked to him about several patients whom he did not want to operate, because of various reasons of potential complications.

It's indeed a field where you can step wrong. I met a patient of Dr.Hsu who was in for his 2nd surgery with him, and his 3rd overall. He had got ED initially from use of recreational use of Sildenafil (Viagra), which created leaks. After unsuccessfull surgery in Belgium, he lost 100% of his potency, which remained unchanged for a year. After surgery by Dr.Hsu he successfully regained 85%, where 15% had to be performed under a 2nd surgery one year later, which was now. This due to damage from the first operation in Belgium hindered full access in his first salvaging surgery. So surgery is indeed a risky thing in general. And you would make sure that your surgeon has a very long track record for the type of surgery he shall perform.

And of course, to properly research your own condition, to exhaust the potential for other options. This is also why I started to indicate some caution on the success rates, and talk about the increased risk for people who have still a significantly functioning potency level, as you still have a lot to lose. My intention with this is exactly to avoid that people jump the gun on deciding for surgery. It should be a thoroughly researched decision, backed up by the best medical professionals.

But it must be remembered that in the end many people will undergo penis surgery at various doctors around the world. And if ultimately surgery is the option, then it's extremly valid and important to chose the right place to perform it. Hence a place to discuss that in particular is important. And that is what this thread is about. It's hard to find actual testimonials from patients from specific doctors. And while theory is good, nothing can beat the actual experiences from patients, so I think that's very important to collect, on the good and bad. Post-operation healing and side effects. These are unvaluable info. All other info is already available around the internet, but this type of info is only here, and hence very important for the few interested.

So we shall continue to share these experiences, while we all make some second thoughts and research on potential for other type of healing. It's all case by case here, specific for each individual, and I think we are all well aware of that.

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#15413 - 10/21/09 02:53 PM Re: I have been masturbating frequently [Re: softglans]
Big Al Offline
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Originally Posted By: softglans
I understand you have a strong view, but you fail to provide the back-up references, like "peer reviewed publications", that is needed to in any way confirm that your opinions are applicable for our conditions. There are endless of more shallow books about potency that are not applicable, or mostly written for the sake of profit. But if any book or source has some actual valued info, this info is available also in the form of medical publications/specific papers. Otherwise the information is not good enough to make decisions on.


Are you kidding?

Let me break it down for you-

To begin, I recommended reading the works of one of the most eminent urological surgeons in history- Dr. Tom Lue. This gentleman's track record is one of the most extensive and brilliant in his field. Dr. Lue has made history with his procedures, and a better reviewed doctor you'll likely not find. Do a little research on the man and see what he thinks of surgery vs. the alternatives. A simple Google search will supply you and anyone interested with more than enough data on this man's work.

I also recommended researching several different medical alternatives to surgery that countless doctors are prescribing to their patients- the pump method, tri-mix, etc. for men with DDV issues. Surely you don't think that these methods aren't "peer reviewed".

Have you read Dr. Danoff's book?

Did you check out EDguidance.com?

GoldJournal is one of the most respected journals in the field of urology. There's enough data on that site to keep you busy reading for years- almost all of it very conservatively backed by studies and peer reviews.

As for medical alternatives, well, there may not be extensive "peer reviews" done on many of them but men have been using these alternative methods with varying degrees success. Most of them would be more than happy to share their details with anyone who asks.

The treatment of venous leakage ED is a controversial one in the medical community, and you'll find a lot of disagreements as to what the "proper" procedures for treatment are all the way up to the highest levels of the profession. This is due to the difficulty of success in this area, the sheer number of alternatives, professional bias, and (of course) the motivation of profit.

I didn't "fail" to provide details (peer reviewed or otherwise)- you failed to follow up on what I posted or you just didn't bother to read through it thoroughly. If you're to be taken seriously you should address a post in its entirety before replying with such "foot in mouth" statements.

For you to dismiss/belittle ALL of my suggestions in an effort to tout your doctor's procedure as somehow applicable to men that may not be in need of them...well, either you didn't truly look my suggestions over or you just didn't care....and that smells as fishy as a red herring.

Originally Posted By: softglans
It's a big difference of treating mild ED, or classic ED which is normally due to typical age or health issues, vs the type of ED we discuss in this thread. This is a distinction that may not be very obvious or easy to accept by others, but is very clear for one who has such a condition. It's long list of established reasons why people have ED, and much can be said and researched in general, but when you are an actual patient you find soon that you fit in a very narrow space with your condition, and your research has to become very specific, and so does the possible solutions.


Like narrowing it down to radical experimental surgery without looking into alternatives first?

Originally Posted By: softglans
You will find that there is a ton of information, but only a few pieces are related to yourself.


Unless you're designed on a completely different body plan, then what works for men with issues similar to yours (DDV leakage) will likely work for you in some capacity.

Originally Posted By: softglans
Hence, my expression that this thread is for very specific conditions, and in no way any general advice.

I have no problem believing that "some" improvement can occur in "some" patients, however for people who are young and otherwise healthy, "some" improvement is ultimately not what they are looking for. I can speak for myself that the venous leak was so clear that I could simply push a finger on my DDV, and block the leak, so the mechanical indications were very obvious, and surgery highly justified. Allthough my erection quality may have been only reduced to 75%, my satisfaction with the sexual condition was maybe 20% only, and similarily also the impact on my overall sex life. I'm young and have not any desire to settle with significantly reduced sexual ability, if there are options to regain my potency fully, with minimal or acceptible risks.


According to the literature, most surgical ED patients do not achieve long term results. As you admitted, you weren't hoping for 100% restoration as you knew that that would be "impossible" due to the rerouting of your blood vessels. Parts of your penis will naturally have to be deprived of blood- giving you, at best, a "functional" but not a pleasingly aesthetic erection. We don't even have to discuss the formation of tunical scar tissue that will inevitably result from your surgery, however minor your incisions may be. How this affects your EQ in the future remain to be seen.

Yet again, your condition may have been improved upon by using other methods that would have left your erection looking natural (perhaps minus the rings, needle marks, etc.), but you have completely/conveniently ignored discussing them.

Considering the severity of your leak, I would appreciate it if you answered these questions that were posed to you in my previous post: Did you experience any bruising, pain or swelling after your injury? Is it possible that you had some preexisting anomaly that may have caused your venous leak? Your description of your injury almost makes it sound like a venous rupture instead of a distention of valves- seeing as that the DDV lies under layers of tunica, and that would have necessitated immediate medical attention.

Please clarify this.

Originally Posted By: softglans
I also do not have a positive impression of any surgery other than that of Dr.Hsu, which is one very special doctor. He has operated about 4000 patients under his own hand, for erectile dysfunction, and has an experience and dedication you will not find even a slight comparison to in any other doctor. His method can hence not be generalized in any way, since it's not being replicated yet. I know very well that many doctors may be after pure profit, but I can assure that when it's about your own penis, you become very sensitive about picking up such signals. Dr.Hsu clearly also has too many clients and too much to do. I also talked to him about several patients whom he did not want to operate, because of various reasons of potential complications.


You have avoided answering many of my questions so let's try this again.

You admit to trying one method (an erectile drug commonly not effective with your kind of ED) before opting for surgery. Surely you did not exhaust all other available, more proven (and less expensive) options. Did Dr. Hsu ask you what you had tried before putting you under the knife? Did he recommend his surgery without recommending other methods first? Which other surgeons/surgical procedures have you researched?

Originally Posted By: softglans
It's indeed a field where you can step wrong. I met a patient of Dr.Hsu who was in for his 2nd surgery with him, and his 3rd overall. He had got ED initially from use of recreational use of Sildenafil (Viagra), which created leaks. After unsuccessfull surgery in Belgium, he lost 100% of his potency, which remained unchanged for a year. After surgery by Dr.Hsu he successfully regained 85%, where 15% had to be performed under a 2nd surgery one year later, which was now. This due to damage from the first operation in Belgium hindered full access in his first salvaging surgery. So surgery is indeed a risky thing in general. And you would make sure that your surgeon has a very long track record for the type of surgery he shall perform.


I take it that this unfortunate patient had to pay for these "follow ups" himself frown

Originally Posted By: softglans
And of course, to properly research your own condition, to exhaust the potential for other options. This is also why I started to indicate some caution on the success rates, and talk about the increased risk for people who have still a significantly functioning potency level, as you still have a lot to lose. My intention with this is exactly to avoid that people jump the gun on deciding for surgery.


But that's exactly what you seemed to have done- wittingly or unwittingly.

Originally Posted By: softglans
It should be a thoroughly researched decision, backed up by the best medical professionals.


Again you miss the point. The typical ED patient is not going to have the degree of knowledge that you seem to have (despite you not having exhausted other options). Most people blindly do what a doctor tells them to do because it's typical of people to surrender themselves to the authority of the White Coat. Should a doctor tell him that only radical surgery in a remote country will cure his condition, that despairing man may feel that that's all he's got.

Now, it's my intention to inform men that there are indeed other methods available, and that it's incumbent upon them to thoroughly educate themselves so that they have the skills to make the decision that's right for them.

I can guarantee that most doctors, if they truly cared about their patients, would not recommend a very new form of experimental surgery right off the bat. Most people can't afford it, their insurance won't cover it, and there are too many cheaper, less invasive, proven nonsurgical techniques that would likely resolve the issue at the same level or or with a better degree of success than the surgical procedure would.

Originally Posted By: softglans
But it must be remembered that in the end many people will undergo penis surgery at various doctors around the world. And if ultimately surgery is the option, then it's extremly valid and important to chose the right place to perform it. Hence a place to discuss that in particular is important. And that is what this thread is about. It's hard to find actual testimonials from patients from specific doctors. And while theory is good, nothing can beat the actual experiences from patients, so I think that's very important to collect, on the good and bad. Post-operation healing and side effects. These are unvaluable info. All other info is already available around the internet, but this type of info is only here, and hence very important for the few interested.


This thread reads more like an advertisement for Dr. Hsu or an extension of his fan club than a group of men looking for sensible solutions to ED.

You made a very interesting post in another section of this forum:

Originally Posted By: softglans
It's as simple as "follow the money". The man's penis through the weakness of the brain, is the easiest way to make money.


On a patient-per-patient basis, surgery is the most financially lucrative option. Surely you'll agree that Dr. Hsu's 4000+ patients at $10,000 a pop on average [for a surgery that does NOT "cure" ED] makes for quite a good living.

I'll repeat this for the benefit of those that haven't read through this long winded thread:

Radical penile surgery should be considered a final option after more conservative methods have been tried first. Educate yourself and research other possible alternatives first!

For you to suggest that intermediary steps are not necessary because you have some special version of ED or because Dr. Hsu seems like a nice guy is irresponsible.

Originally Posted By: softglans
So we shall continue to share these experiences, while we all make some second thoughts and research on potential for other type of healing. It's all case by case here, specific for each individual, and I think we are all well aware of that.


I have yet to hear you recommend any procedure beyond Dr. Hsu's.

You seemed to have completely downplayed and belittled my numerous suggestions for men with your condition without regards for the content of the information I've provided. Either you didn't read what I posted or you're too blinded by your own doctor's brilliance to give it an honest go. There's also the possibility that you work for Dr. Hsu and are here to promote his services, but we can't prove that just yet wink

For those of you reading this that think that's a paranoid suggestion, please keep in mind that I've been participating on various male enhancement forums for over 10 years now and have seen them spammed, hacked, and attacked by entities that have a lot to lose from men seeking out alternatives to their expensive treatments. It's an ongoing fight and the tactics range from blatant spam to the more subtle shilling where these people (often more than one) will ingratiate themselves into the community before promoting their wares.

Here's an interesting example of one such incident- several years ago, one of the moderators at PEForums busted an employee of a phalloplastician (penis enlargement surgeon) hacking the forum after having participated as a member for several months. When caught, this person claimed to have been pushed to doing so because the enlargement forums were depriving him of income!

Softglans, you seem to be fairly well informed on the subject of DDV "venous leak" ED. Tell us, what exactly would you advise to someone in your condition that doesn't have tens of thousands of dollars and plenty of free time, fears the prospect of surgery, or can't/won't wait several months for a patient slot?

If you had to do it over again- given the constraints above- what would you recommend?


Edited by Big Al (10/21/09 03:29 PM)

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#15414 - 10/21/09 03:51 PM Re: I have been masturbating frequently [Re: Big Al]
softglans Offline
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Registered: 08/29/09
Posts: 29
I'm not questioning the credibility of the sources you suggest. I just ask if you can provide links to abstracts of papers that are relevant to significant venous leak ED. If you could it will progress the discussion in a healthy and respectful manner, instead of the offensive way you are now writing in.

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#15415 - 10/21/09 04:08 PM Re: I have been masturbating frequently [Re: softglans]
softglans Offline
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Registered: 08/29/09
Posts: 29
Ok, I hope we can stay a bit focused on the actual methods. I found here one abstract by Dr. Tom Lue.

Surgery for crural venous leakage

This is from 1999. I will try to find other alternative abstracts from later papers.

This resembles part of the surgery that Dr.Hsu perform. Except that Dr.Hsu does not detach the ligament from the pubic bone, and is hence a bit less invasive method. Still Dr.Hsu's surgery is more extensive in other areas, but he considers that required to achieve a successful result.

It can be mentioned that Dr.Hsu's method in 2002/03 have changed significantly towards today, to include a much higher number of ligations.


Edited by softglans (10/21/09 04:23 PM)

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#15416 - 10/21/09 04:18 PM Re: I have been masturbating frequently [Re: softglans]
Big Al Offline
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Originally Posted By: softglans
I'm not questioning the credibility of the sources you suggest. I just ask if you can provide links to abstracts of papers that are relevant to significant venous leak ED. If you could it will progress the discussion in a healthy and respectful manner, instead of the offensive way you are now writing in.


I was certainly not trying to be offensive(?) Certainly I was nowhere nearly as offensive as you were in your post to me here.

You did refer to my sources as not having peer reviews, and you alluded to the book that I mentioned as a "shallow" publication. Now you're asking for links to "abstract studies". You'll find studies galore in some of the internet publications I've mentioned (as well as by searching for Dr. Lue's work), but I'll also do you the favor of including some (along with a few links of interest) in a PM to you.

As to outside links, it's frowned upon in this forum to post links without express permission, but you can take it upon yourself to cut and paste the aforementioned website names into your browser (e.g.- goldjournal), and you can conduct a search on any of the terms I've mentioned (and further refine them by adding the term "venous leak" or "deep dorsal vein erectile dysfunction") and you'll get more than enough data on DDV ED procedures and alternatives to keep you busy.

Perhaps now you would do me the courtesy of answering my questions to you.

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#15417 - 10/21/09 04:35 PM Re: I have been masturbating frequently [Re: Big Al]
softglans Offline
newbie

Registered: 08/29/09
Posts: 29
Big Al ,
I don't try to aggravate you. But you attack almost every detail of my post with a lot of questions. It's impossible to hold a discussion this way, we will post forever. We need to focus on the topic, which is to search for alternatives to surgery and see what success rate they may have. This is indeed the main point you are making too.

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#15418 - 10/21/09 04:52 PM Re: I have been masturbating frequently [Re: softglans]
Big Al Offline
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Originally Posted By: softglans
Ok, I hope we can stay a bit focused on the actual methods. I found here one abstract by Dr. Tom Lue.

Surgery for crural venous leakage

This resembles part of the surgery that Dr.Hsu perform. Except that Dr.Hsu does not detach the ligament from the pubic bone, and is hence a bit less invasive method.

This is from 1999. I will try to find other alternative abstracts from later papers.


I thought the point of this exercise was to find abstracts for nonsurgical procedures...oh well. Dr. Lue is more heavily involved in surgical alternatives these days. I do see that you used GoldJournal though smile

Since links are frowned upon in this forum, here are some references to nonsurgical alternatives for DDV ED (since we're posting here, I'll just PM you the nonsurgical alternative sites I've come across):

(in the embryonic stages of development) Lue T. Stem cells and the treatment of sexual dysfunction; Presented at: 2007 Winter Meeting of the Sexual Medicine Society of North America; December 6–9, 2007; Chicago, IL.

(trimix) Muller A, Rojas Cruz, Choi JM, et al. Predictors of venous leak development in men following radical prostatectomy. J Sex Med. 2008;5(suppl 1):21. Poster 47.

(ethanol) Pelvic venoablation with ethanol for the treatment of erectile dysfunction due to veno-occlusive dysfunction. Miwa Y, Shioyama R, Itou Y, Kanamaru H, Okada K. Urology. 2001 Jul;58(1):76-9.

McMahon CG. Nonsurgical treatment of cavernosal venous leakage. Urology 1997;49:97-100.

From Dr. Lue himself: "For patients who have failed medical management of ED or who are dissatisfied with its result, surgical therapy may be considered; however, all nonsurgical options should be fully explored prior to embarking on a surgical course."
RE: Ch. 33- Pg 415 of "Male sexual dysfunction: pathophysiology and treatment" By Fouad R. Kandeel

There's also much to be said about the more traditional methods of treating ED (like with pumps), as well as some of the more exotic methods like urethral suppositories (Muse).


Edited by Big Al (10/21/09 05:12 PM)

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#15419 - 10/21/09 04:55 PM Re: I have been masturbating frequently [Re: softglans]
Big Al Offline
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Originally Posted By: softglans
Big Al ,
I don't try to aggravate you. But you attack almost every detail of my post with a lot of questions. It's impossible to hold a discussion this way, we will post forever. We need to focus on the topic, which is to search for alternatives to surgery and see what success rate they may have. This is indeed the main point you are making too.


There's no attacking here- I'm merely trying to find out a bit more about your particular experience to see how we can help men find the best methods for treating their ailments.

I've answered many of your questions in detail, a reply to mine is just common courtesy.

What nonsurgical remedies would you recommend?


Edited by Big Al (10/21/09 05:08 PM)

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#15420 - 10/21/09 05:20 PM Re: I have been masturbating frequently [Re: Big Al]
softglans Offline
newbie

Registered: 08/29/09
Posts: 29
Originally Posted By: Big Al

What nonsurgical remedies would you recommend?


If talking about significant venous leak, I have no answer for this. From my current research there is nothing non surgical that can restore a so called normal erectile function for my case.

Originally Posted By: Big Al

There's also much to be said about the more traditional methods of treating ED (like with pumps), as well as some of the more exotic methods like urethral suppositories (Muse).

Yes, pump and Muse were alternatives proposed by my European specialist, and DDV surgery was his third option. The former are obviously not to improve the condition, but a way to "live with it".

For myself, at a young age, and where sex is a large part of my life, it was not an option to live with such devices, if it existed surgical methods that could restore a normal erection quality, and be safe and with minimal chances of side effects. I wanted to be able to have spontaneous sex at remote locations, outside in nature, and at any time without the need to use such assisting devices.

That is why I opted for surgery, even though he gave me only 30% chance of long term improvement. In the end though, I chose different surgery, after search for better success rate.

Yes, and one more thing, a penis ring. That is probably the most attractive tool to use for anyone, in order to live with similar condition. I opted out of that one, due to unsatisfying results though.

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#15421 - 10/21/09 05:26 PM Re: I have been masturbating frequently [Re: softglans]
Big Al Offline
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Originally Posted By: softglans
Yes, pump and Muse were alternatives proposed by my European specialist, and DDV surgery was his third option. The former are obviously not to improve the condition, but a way to "live with it".

For myself, at a young age, and where sex is a large part of my life, it was not an option to live with such devices, if it existed surgical methods that could restore a normal erection quality, and be safe and with minimal chances of side effects. I wanted to be able to have spontaneous sex at remote locations, outside in nature, and at any time without the need to use such assisting devices.

That is why I opted for surgery, even though he gave me only 30% chance of long term improvement. In the end though, I chose different surgery, after search for better success rate.

Yes, and one more thing, a penis ring. That is probably the most attractive tool to use for anyone, in order to live with similar condition. I opted out of that one, due to unsatisfying results though.


I appreciate your honestly and candidness. ED is a horrible condition that afflicts a great percentage of men, and finding a safe and affordable solution should be a priority.

Another few questions (if you don't mind). What are your contingency plans for long term erectile functioning? Has Dr. Hsu mentioned anything that you can do that may help prolong the success of your surgery?

Also, what happened on the day that you injured yourself- was there extensive bruising, swelling, or pain? Did any of your doctors identify any possible preexisting anomalies that may have contributed to your condition?


Edited by Big Al (10/21/09 05:26 PM)

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#15422 - 10/21/09 05:48 PM Re: I have been masturbating frequently [Re: Big Al]
softglans Offline
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Registered: 08/29/09
Posts: 29
Contingency plan is "faith". Dr.Hsu is close to 60 years old, and after he ends his active surgery the chances of anyone making successful contingency surgery are not good. Except for his colleague who is now about 50 and also practicing and perfecting this technique, but not with the same experience.

However his patients do not suffer from return of venous leak after initial successful result. Except some patients of his earlier methods, where fewer veins were ligated. Dr.Hsu considers a return of such leaks as "residual veins" (surgeons responsibility), in contrast with other doctors, including my European one, who consider them as "recurrent"/growing back (patient's responsibility). Dr.Hsu see no evidence that veins grow back, but smaller residual veins may increase in size/flow after bigger ones are ligated. He does neither charge for any follow up surgery.

After the day of injury I lost erection for about a week or a bit more, including morning erections. Morning erections returned (along with healing pain), but soft glans and difficulties to get and keep erection persisted.

Edit: There was also mild bruising. And minor swelling during healing, like skin was a bit thick and soft, I think. But nothing like bulging with lymph fluid, as I recently had post-surgery


Edited by softglans (10/21/09 06:01 PM)

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#15423 - 10/21/09 06:03 PM Re: I have been masturbating frequently [Re: softglans]
Big Al Offline
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Originally Posted By: softglans
Contingency plan is "faith". Dr.Hsu is close to 60 years old, and after he ends his active surgery the chances of anyone making successful contingency surgery are not good. Except for his colleague who is now about 50 and also practicing and perfecting this technique, but not with the same experience.

However his patients do not suffer from return of venous leak after initial successful result. Except some patients of his earlier methods, where fewer veins were ligated. Dr.Hsu considers a return of such leaks as "residual veins" (surgeons responsibility), in contrast with other doctors, including my European one, who consider them as "recurrent"/growing back (patient's responsibility). Dr.Hsu see no evidence that veins grow back, but smaller residual veins may increase in size/flow after bigger ones are ligated. He does neither charge for any follow up surgery.

After the day of injury I lost erection for about a week or a bit more, including morning erections. Morning erections returned (along with healing pain), but soft glans and difficulties to get and keep erection persisted.

Edit: There were also mild bruising, and during healing I believe some swelling due to lymph fluid.


Well, I truly hope that you continue in good sexual health. Perhaps some stamina work will help you maximize your EQ to the fullest of its ability.

It's likely that something may have been done to prevent your condition from fully manifesting itself if you had gotten immediate medical attention, but that's in the past frown

It's refreshing to hear that Dr. Hsu doesn't charge for follow ups as most surgeons do.

For anyone else reading this: Softglans suffered venous leak ED through the performance of a risky version of a penile exercise. If you're going to take up PE, please remember to start your intensity and volume in moderation and slowly add to your regimen as time goes by. Stick with the more traditional exercises- especially if you're a beginner. If you're an advanced trainee and wish to experiment with riskier movements (clamping, jelqs against a sink or other hard object, etc.), please be aware that you're putting yourself at high risk. Proceed with extreme caution!

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#15426 - 10/21/09 07:10 PM Re: I have been masturbating frequently [Re: Big Al]
softglans Offline
newbie

Registered: 08/29/09
Posts: 29
I think I will be fine thanks. But it was not a pleasant experience, and wasted a great deal of time. But there are people who have had ED for far longer than me, and with unsuccessful treatment, so I also feel lucky with my current recovery to full EQ.

Now, back to the question about alternatives to surgery, for full restoration. One interesting finding is:

Title: Intracavernosal vascular endothelial growth factor (VEGF) injection and adeno-associated virus-mediated VEGF gene therapy prevent and reverse venogenic erectile dysfunction in rats - International Journal of Impotence Research (2003)

Can be found freely download-able by google search. It's just a study on rats though, I found nothing indicating that this has been taken any further though, or even tested on humans. So this is not possible to pursue, but just for thought.

However, a realistic one:
You should make sure that your hormone levels are tested, even though this should be a standard test performed by your doctor/urologist, and indeed was in my case checked and confirmed good. Specially if you have no physical trauma that initiated your condition. It's shown that 20% of people with ED have low hormone levels. Further, if you fall into this category, a study from 2008;

Title: Testosterone Improves Erectile Function in Hypogonadal Patients With Venous Leakage

..indicates that testosterone therapy gives "marked improvement in erectile function domain" for 69% of the patients. This was for "Hypogonadal (Low testosterone) Patients". Study included 29 patients at age 32-65 (avg 47).

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#15427 - 10/21/09 07:27 PM Re: I have been masturbating frequently [Re: softglans]
Big Al Offline
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As I noted the VEGF is still in the embryonic stages of research. I think that procedures like these hold great promise- and not just for ED either.

Your mention of testing hormone levels is definitely a great idea. Lower-than-normal levels of testosterone can have a vicious cycle effect that can compound into physical AND psychological ED.

As I'm fond of saying, start with the simple stuff first smile

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#15436 - 10/22/09 10:12 AM Re: I have been masturbating frequently [Re: davidjohnson]
stoneofrefuge Offline
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Registered: 10/22/09
Posts: 7
Loc: Texas USA
Umm I can say this much. I been where you are. I still do it. I am only 36. There is nothing wrong with masturbation. I had been broken in by a female back in 2004. Her and I both had sex repeatedly until my penis went soft and dead. I am guessing that diabetes has alot to do with ED. I guess that is why doctors tell diabetics to take care of the blood sugar. Because it causes diabetic neuropathy along with other issues. Diabetes is when a blood turns acidic or thickens. . That is the reason why diabetes kills alot of people. It is better to keep the blood sugar between 120 and 80. Us men need to bind together and pray that we all love Jesus Christ first, then ourselves. Then things will follow in a path. I hope this helps out with everyone.

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#15444 - 10/22/09 12:09 PM Re: I have been masturbating frequently [Re: stoneofrefuge]
myrealname Offline
old hand

Registered: 04/21/08
Posts: 417
Loc: Indiana
Softglans: thanks for sharing your experience and the results of your research here. Thanks also for answering in detail a number of questions I posed to you in another thread.

I am going to outline my experience and ask you a few more questions, if I may. I am a 57 year old reasonably healthy male I have no chronic diseases but about 15 lbs over my ideal weight, a non-smoker, but I drink a little too much and don't get enough regular aerobic exercise. I have an extensive backgound in biology, medicine and physiology. I have no "axe to grind" either pro-PE or anti-PE. I have both a personal and a physiological interest in your experience.

Upon reaching the age of 55, like many males, I experienced some decrease in erection quality. Although I was always able to become erect enough for penetration, the quality was sometimes (not always) significantly less than when I was younger. Suprise, suprise.

I stumbled upon PE on the internet and read testimonies about how it improved EQ for many and I figured "why not?" I also lost a little weight and started to get a bit more exercise, so I can't say that any benefit I observed was solely, or even partially due to PE. But I did notice improvement in EQ, return of nocturnal erections (some of which seemed as hard as when I had been 19 yo) and improvement in intensity of orgasm. Needless to say, I kept it up.

I frankly did not believe that PE would make me any bigger and when I first noticed an increase in size, I attributed it solely to improvement in EQ. Then I became somewhat larger than I had ever been, even when younger, and realized that it really is possible to permanently stretch and enlarge the penile tunica, septum, and ligaments.

I have been married for 27 years. Although intercourse with my wife was still pleasurable, there is no question that she lost vaginal tone after childbirth x 2. Although she never mentioned it, I got the strong impression that this had an effect on her enjoyment of penile/vaginal sex. There is no question it had an effect on my enjoyment. Before childbirth, she had not only been significantly snugger, but I was also just able to touch bottom in some positions. This was no longer the case after childbirth, even after I experienced an improvement in EQ.

I decided that I would continue PE with two goals: 1. to maintain improved EQ, and 2. to try to gain a little more length and girth to accomodate my partner's somewhat larger size and get back to the way things used to be. If I felt there was a very significant risk that PE would induce ED, however, I would stop.

Now the questions:

1. In your research, how frequent do you sense is the incidence of PE causing ED? Is this something that you feel many guys have experienced and just don't want to talk about? Or is it a rarity? I'm talking about just jelquing, stretches, and Kegels, not clamping, pumping, or hanging.

2. Did you initially experience an improvement in EQ? At your age, perhaps there wasn't any room for improvement, as there was at my age.

3. I understand that there was a lanquage barrier with Dr, Hsu but did you glean from him, or from your research, any understanding of how your injury induced venous leak, and why it was confined to the corpus spongiosum? In other words, do you have any insight as to the mechanism of injury?

4. Do you feel that any PE is potentially dangerous? I think many people are able to accept some degree of risk depending on the perceived risk/benefit ratio. For example, car travel and air travel have proved fatal for many individuals, but few people would propose that everyone avoid automobiles and airplanes. After all, penile fracture has been reported (albeit rarely) with intercourse, and it has potentially severe consequences. But it hasn't caused too many guys to give up fucking. Do you feel that the potential risks with PE,are great enough to outweigh any potential benefit in improvement in EQ or size? Are there any forms of PE that you would endorse?

5. Prior to surgery, did you try Viagra, Levitra, Cialis or any of the generics and what was the effect?

Once again, thanks for your time, your responses, and best luck with the results of your surgery.

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#15449 - 10/22/09 01:46 PM Re: I have been masturbating frequently [Re: myrealname]
CaroleTucson Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/25/09
Posts: 1831
Loc: Tucson, AZ
Originally Posted By: myrealname
I also lost a little weight and started to get a bit more exercise, so I can't say that any benefit I observed was solely, or even partially due to PE. But I did notice improvement in EQ


I have heard other men say the same thing about their erections and physical condition. I date men in your age group fairly often, and so this subject is of some interest to me. One man also told me that his penis got larger as he lost weight and increased his physical conditioning. I thought that sounded strange, but then who am I to know?

My perspective on this is different than yours, obviously, but my experience is that, while men in their 50's take longer to get fully erect and longer to recover afterward, their performance itself is just as vigorous as younger men.

Combine that with the sexual knowledge they've gained over the years, and overall I think older men are much better lovers than younger men.

ps--One other difference I've noticed with older men ... the volume of semen ejaculated is less. I have no idea if that makes a difference to men in terms of their enjoyment of sex ... it certainly makes no difference to me.
_________________________
When they asked me, "when are you coming home?", I answered, "when they stop building roads."

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#15471 - 10/22/09 03:13 PM Re: I have been masturbating frequently [Re: CaroleTucson]
myrealname Offline
old hand

Registered: 04/21/08
Posts: 417
Loc: Indiana
Thanks for sharing your experience, Carole. While there are a substantial number of older men, and even younger men, who suffer from severe ED, I agree that age alone, in the absence of significant chronic disease, need not necessarily render a man incapable of being a fairly virile lover.

I think what most men experience as they age is some loss in erection angle and some variable loss in the intensity of erections. I remember having erections in college on a very frequent basis that would make me feel as if I was litorally going to explode ("stand back everybody, this baby's gonna blow"). I also find that I need rather continuous physical stimulation or my erection starts to subside a little and that visual or mental images alone are less likely to result in a full erection. No doubt refractory period does increase overall, but the other day I had two orgasms in four hours, which kind of made it a good day.

As for volume of ejaculate and vigor of ejaculation, I have found that Kegel exercises makes a big difference and substantially enhances the intensity of orgasm for men (at least for me).

So make a deal with your partner(s) to Kegel together.

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#15479 - 10/22/09 04:41 PM Re: I have been masturbating frequently [Re: myrealname]
CaroleTucson Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/25/09
Posts: 1831
Loc: Tucson, AZ
Originally Posted By: myrealname
So make a deal with your partner(s) to Kegel together.


Not to be confused with a kegger, which is something different.

Sorry. I'll go away and you can bring this thread back on track now.
_________________________
When they asked me, "when are you coming home?", I answered, "when they stop building roads."

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#15504 - 10/23/09 12:31 PM Re: I have been masturbating frequently [Re: CaroleTucson]
Big Al Offline
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Registered: 07/16/08
Posts: 293
Originally Posted By: CaroleTucson
Originally Posted By: myrealname
So make a deal with your partner(s) to Kegel together.


Not to be confused with a kegger, which is something different.

Sorry. I'll go away and you can bring this thread back on track now.


Please don't- your presence in this thread is refreshing smile

Stop and Starts are also a great exercise and (IMO) can do more for stamina and strengthening the penis than the kegel can.

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#15520 - 10/24/09 07:23 AM Re: I have been masturbating frequently [Re: myrealname]
softglans Offline
newbie

Registered: 08/29/09
Posts: 29
Originally Posted By: myrealname
..

myrealname,
Your question about PE takes this thread very off course, so to keep things in order and focused I posted answer to your question in the enlargement forum, in this thread: link


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#15587 - 10/25/09 09:20 PM Re: I have been masturbating frequently [Re: softglans]
myrealname Offline
old hand

Registered: 04/21/08
Posts: 417
Loc: Indiana
Disagree. I think this thread was well off its original course and the other thread was closed, for reasons of which you are aware.

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#15604 - 10/26/09 06:01 AM Re: I have been masturbating frequently [Re: myrealname]
softglans Offline
newbie

Registered: 08/29/09
Posts: 29
Sorry! I did not mean that as a critic at all. I guess I should have said that in the previous post.. It was just to explain why I did that. And yes, as you say, the thread was already a bit off course, so I just felt it was best to get a bit more structure.

Half of the reason was also that your question I felt was very valuable for other PE'ers to consider, so I think it's good to have it on the enlargement forum.


Edited by softglans (10/26/09 06:35 AM)

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#15611 - 10/26/09 12:02 PM Re: I have been masturbating frequently [Re: Big Al]
Grifter Offline
journeyman

Registered: 01/21/09
Posts: 54
Originally Posted By: Big Al
Originally Posted By: CaroleTucson
Originally Posted By: myrealname
So make a deal with your partner(s) to Kegel together.


Not to be confused with a kegger, which is something different.

Sorry. I'll go away and you can bring this thread back on track now.


Please don't- your presence in this thread is refreshing smile

Stop and Starts are also a great exercise and (IMO) can do more for stamina and strengthening the penis than the kegel can.


I typically stop and start (or "edge") while both masturbating and having sex--so that includes thousands of (mostly masturbatory) edging sessions--and yet I've seen no benefit or "strengthening" to my penis. It'd be fantastic if the penis were so simple that targeted exercises could plug venous leaks, but I don't think that's the case. There's a good reason that a vacuum pump only yielded embarrassingly poor results as well.


Edited by Grifter (10/26/09 12:03 PM)

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#15637 - 10/26/09 07:48 PM Re: I have been masturbating frequently [Re: Grifter]
Big Al Offline
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Originally Posted By: Grifter
I typically stop and start (or "edge") while both masturbating and having sex--so that includes thousands of (mostly masturbatory) edging sessions--and yet I've seen no benefit or "strengthening" to my penis. It'd be fantastic if the penis were so simple that targeted exercises could plug venous leaks, but I don't think that's the case. There's a good reason that a vacuum pump only yielded embarrassingly poor results as well.


Another option would be for you to supplement your diet with "butcher's broom". Studies have shown that it can be effective in venous insufficiency issues. This may work best when used in combination with pumps and/or exercises.

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#16324 - 11/12/09 12:16 PM Re: I have been masturbating frequently [Re: Big Al]
Big Al Offline
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Here's another cutting edge article on helping men with severe penile issues: http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/11/091109173356.htm

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#17120 - 12/19/09 12:59 AM Re: I have been masturbating frequently [Re: Big Al]
Grifter Offline
journeyman

Registered: 01/21/09
Posts: 54
Originally Posted By: Big Al
Here's another cutting edge article on helping men with severe penile issues: http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/11/091109173356.htm


Thanks for posting the article, Big Al. I must say it's depressing to hear the words "could one day..."

But here's an interesting tidbit: One of the project's co-researchers, Kuo-Liang Chen, is a colleague of Dr. Geng-long Hsu's at China Medical Unversity Hospital in Taiwan.

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#17933 - 01/24/10 12:07 PM Re: I have been masturbating frequently [Re: Grifter]
Owen33 Offline
stranger

Registered: 11/19/09
Posts: 8
Hey guys, no updates. What's your condition now? Has anyone done the surgery? I see softglans apparently had a successful one, but how about others, how are you guys doing?

Grifter?

gfs?

Lou?

I seem to have some condition too and I'm searching for possible solutions.

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#18408 - 02/07/10 07:44 PM Re: I have been masturbating frequently [Re: Owen33]
Lou Offline
stranger

Registered: 07/16/09
Posts: 8
Loc: armenia
Hello to everyone..Owen it is now more than 7 months after my surgery andthe condition hasn't change.I have a noticable improvment than before surgery but i am not alright.The 'good' thing is that now i can work with viagra which is something that i couldn't before.Look the best not prosthetic surgery for venous leak in the world is performed by Dr Hsu.Thats the truth.If your problem is not to big then you have very good chances with this surgery.My problem was big and i had a leak from corpus spongiosum.My opinion is to do a cavernosography to find out if you have leak from corpus spongiosum because if you have the surgery will not cure you.Spongy vein can not be ligated..

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#18816 - 02/25/10 06:30 PM Re: I have been masturbating frequently [Re: Lou]
Owen33 Offline
stranger

Registered: 11/19/09
Posts: 8
Lou, thank you very much for your reply.

I am very sorry you are not feeling better yet. I was deeply moved by your compassionate presence here.

What are your plans now? Is another surgery with dr. Hsu an option for you? Maybe you could do emobilization of this vein?

I really hope you have improvement.

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#20096 - 04/12/10 10:56 AM Re: I have been masturbating frequently [Re: Owen33]
Grifter Offline
journeyman

Registered: 01/21/09
Posts: 54
This is a big bump, but I just want to say that I'm still around and still haven't had the surgery done. It's a big sum of money for a young guy like me, so I'm still saving up, but I'm almost there. I'll visit Dr. Hsu in May or June.

softglans, who had the surgery performed, started another forum specifically to help people with ED, but I won't link to it because I'm not sure if that is allowed here. (you can find it by Googling "Geng Long Hsu"). There his new username reflects his results, which he says are excellent (100% erection quality).

Lou, since a European doctor operated on you, I am guessing that Dr. Hsu had to perform "salvaging" surgery on you. This is more expensive but also maybe more difficult.

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#20361 - 04/22/10 05:26 AM Re: I have been masturbating frequently [Re: softglans]
Ethan Hunt Offline
stranger

Registered: 02/16/10
Posts: 17
Loc: CA
that is just a cause of regular masturbation ...i know masturbation doesn't affect a lot to your physical health but it really lose the erection and sexual desires after that...take a rest for your sexual desires for 2-3 weeks and see the result..

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#22549 - 07/05/10 06:15 AM Re: I have been masturbating frequently [Re: Ethan Hunt]
Grifter Offline
journeyman

Registered: 01/21/09
Posts: 54
Another big bump here to say that I did indeed have the surgery performed and, thus far, it appears to have been a success.

If you have a venous leak and wish to know additional details, PM me, but here I'll keep it short.

The surgery was rather painful at the start, but then the local anesthetic kicks in and you feel nothing. The two weeks post-surgery are also a rough ride for various reasons, but I'm through the worst of it and my erections are very nearly 100% rigidity. The best thing is that they never vanish while I'm turned on, which was the biggest problem before.

My penis has increased slightly in girth post-surgery (probably just because the blood is now trapped without any venous leaks to drain it out). I also lost about half an inch of length (post-op shortening), but it's a temporary thing and I've noticed gradual improvement. Another man who underwent surgery told me it took him 10 weeks post-surgery to return to his max length.

I haven't been able to use it yet because even though I no longer feel pain during erections; I need to take it easy on my equipment for a little while longer. I can tell that my girlfriend will be happy with it though. smile

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#22551 - 07/05/10 11:24 AM Re: I have been masturbating frequently [Re: Grifter]
OlderMan Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/03/10
Posts: 1456
Glad to hear it, Grifter! Keep us updated.
_________________________
A lusty, turned-on woman in full roar is the ultimate aphrodisiac.

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#22554 - 07/05/10 03:07 PM Re: I have been masturbating frequently [Re: OlderMan]
Firefly Offline
Esteemed Member

Registered: 09/02/08
Posts: 4100
Loc: United States
Thats great news Grifter!
_________________________
Decide. Commit. Succeed.

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#22560 - 07/06/10 09:09 AM Re: I have been masturbating frequently [Re: Firefly]
Grifter Offline
journeyman

Registered: 01/21/09
Posts: 54
Thanks you two! (And you, particularly, Firefly, for your kind support in the past). I'll be sure to keep the forum updated. So far so good though.

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#23021 - 07/17/10 11:28 AM Re: I have been masturbating frequently [Re: softglans]
gamer_reg Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 07/01/10
Posts: 222
I am 55 and have masturbated all my life. To be honest, I have never found woman or man that gives me an orgasm as nice as I give myself. To the point that eventually I just quit trying to find one.

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#24160 - 08/14/10 12:05 AM Re: I have been masturbating frequently [Re: gamer_reg]
Grifter Offline
journeyman

Registered: 01/21/09
Posts: 54
Another big bump to say that my erection quality is now 100%. For the first times in years I have nocturnal erections, morning erections, even spontaneous erections--it's fantastic! Before surgery, erections were difficult to achieve and easy to lose; now they're easy to achieve and difficult to lose!

I also recovered fully from the post-operative shortening, and as an added benefit I have increased sensitivity--I think the proper blood flow accounts for that.

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#24161 - 08/14/10 12:13 AM Re: I have been masturbating frequently [Re: Grifter]
skinback Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 07/15/10
Posts: 384
Loc: United States
Originally Posted By: Grifter
Another big bump to say that my erection quality is now 100%. For the first times in years I have nocturnal erections, morning erections, even spontaneous erections--it's fantastic! Before surgery, erections were difficult to achieve and easy to lose; now they're easy to achieve and difficult to lose!

I also recovered fully from the post-operative shortening, and as an added benefit I have increased sensitivity--I think the proper blood flow accounts for that.


Sounds like time to drop by the "Morning Wood" thread, and write a celebratory note of your own. Congratulations, sounds like you've got a lot of good times coming up on the horizon. You've certainly earned it!

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#24187 - 08/14/10 09:31 AM Re: I have been masturbating frequently [Re: skinback]
Firefly Offline
Esteemed Member

Registered: 09/02/08
Posts: 4100
Loc: United States
So happy for you Grifter! Thats amazing.
_________________________
Decide. Commit. Succeed.

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#24203 - 08/14/10 11:52 AM Re: I have been masturbating frequently [Re: Firefly]
Grifter Offline
journeyman

Registered: 01/21/09
Posts: 54
Thanks Firefly. smile

skinback--And how much saving that earning entailed! $10,000 is an awful lot for most people, especially a 23-year-old man working his first full-time job. But, assuming the results are permanent, it was absolutely worth it. The corpus cavernosography revealed that I did indeed have a venous leak--venous leaks, I should say, as I had three huge venous "highways" that failed to trap the blood necessary for adequate erection quality.

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#24210 - 08/14/10 01:46 PM Re: I have been masturbating frequently [Re: Grifter]
Firefly Offline
Esteemed Member

Registered: 09/02/08
Posts: 4100
Loc: United States
I think it was money well spent! $10,000 is a small price to pay for a lifetime of normally functioning sexuality.
_________________________
Decide. Commit. Succeed.

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#178056 - 02/18/17 04:39 AM Re: I have been masturbating frequently [Re: davidjohnson]
moreorless Offline
stranger

Registered: 02/18/17
Posts: 2
What happened with this people?
They are continuing cured?

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